of the Line / Sightings on the Radio
with Jeff Rense
Sunday, June 1st, 1997 8:00pm - 11:00pm Pacific Time
Transcript File 2 of Total 5
Transcribed by PJ Gaenir, firstname.lastname@example.org
Transcribed from audio cassette which was courtesy of Jeff Rense.
This is a "general" transcript. It does not include every syllable.
File 2 of 5 in this series.
|Continued from previous
JEFF: You had a near-death-experience which changed your life, I think that we need to talk a little about that if you would. And where did that occur and what were the circumstances?
JOE: Well that occurred in 1970 when I was assigned to Germany. It actually occurred while I was in Austria, I was having dinner with my wife and some friends, and started feeling very badly, and when I excused myself to go outside for fresh air, because I was nauseous, as I went through the door I collapsed, went into convulsions, swallowed my tongue, and as a result stopped breathing, and by the time they got me to the hospital I was DOA. The entire time that -- for the entire length of time of that event, I was out of my body, observing the events, and followed them as they carried me to the hospital in the car, and watched the action in the emergency room. At some point I felt as though I was falling through a tunnel, and when I stopped falling, I had a sense of heat on the back of my neck, and when I turned around I was enveloped in the classical white light.
JEFF: What were your feelings, your emotions at the time, seeing yourself, the usual detached peace and happiness, did you feel liberated from all of it...?
JOE: Well initially what happens is you have a feeling of fear, because you don't know what's going on, and things don't seem to make any sense. [JEFF: I would think.] Immediately following, within a few seconds of that fear, you, through a rationalization process come to the conclusion that you're either dying or dead, and at that point it becomes one of curiosity. And eventually you even detach from the curiosity, it's a feeling of necessity to go somewhere, that you have other business, or you may be looking to where you need to go next, and then the envelopment by the white light usually resolves in the conclusion that you've met God, or --
JEFF: Universal consciousness.
JOE: Yeah, universal consciousness.
JEFF: Any anger in there at all Joe?
JOE: Um, no, not really, I had a sense of great disappointment at one point, where you know, you review your whole past life, it's sort of an instantaneous review of your life's actions --
JEFF: It does replay.
JOE: Oh yes. What's interesting is that it does replay in absolute detail, but it happens like a flash. And one of the most disappointing aspects of that is realizing your own personal, you know [JEFF: Shortcomings?] shortcomings, and the things that you wish you could have done better with in your life.
JEFF: Interesting. Ok we'll be right back with Joseph McMoneagle in just a couple of minutes, here on Sightings on the Radio.
[Real Audio Counter: 39:15.0]
JEFF: And welcome back, we're talking with Joseph McMoneagle, his new book -- actually reprinted book, we call it new because there are new chapters and material in it -- is called MIND TREK: Exploring Consciousness, Time, and Space Through Remote Viewing. And if you heard what I just said, exploring consciousness, time and space, we will get into lots of interesting areas as tonight's program progresses.
JEFF: Joe, Dannion Brinkley once told me that he had the same experience basically you did, he died twice, and his entire life flashed before him, and we've all heard this many times, did you feel, as your life flashed before you when you noticed your shortcomings and noticed the things you had done that you probably could have done better at, did you feel guilt at all?
JOE: No actually, I didn't feel any guilt, I just felt very badly for having missed a lot of the possibilities. For not being aware. It was sort of a -- I felt as though I were operating on automatic, like I was asleep. And it would have been a lot better if I had been awake. One of the other things I wanted to say is, while it's happening, you have a sense that you're not alone, that you're sharing the information with some other entity, but it's all done in an unconditional, loving atmosphere, and the unconditional love is so overwhelming, that even the smallest aspects of your faults become very very magnified, and so they're very disappointing. More than guilty.
JEFF: Hmmn. You feel like you want another chance?
JOE: Right -- well, you feel like, if you just, if you could have just been a little more aware of what you were doing at the time, it would have been a lot better.
JEFF: What did you see as the reason that kept you from that level of awareness, that you think you'd rather have had?
JOE: Ignorance, more than anything. [JEFF: Ego?] Yeah, that and up until that point in my life, I was very much a black and white person, you know, either things were one way or they were the other, and I was also extremely self centered to a certain degree, where if I didn't think someone else had anything of value they could share, then I wasn't interested. And I've since learned that, as my wife once astutely observed, what we need to do is, we need to like, look on the janitors the same way that we would look on say, the Dalai Lama, you know sort of a shared consciousness, or a shared realization that all human beings are important.
JEFF: Did you happen to notice or sense the reaction or sense the reactions and feelings of other people that had interacted with you during your last time -- up to that point, who had been hurt or disappointed by you?
JOE: Yeah. That all comes through as well. You actually see in review what their intentions were. And so there's this remarkable feeling of loss, that you may have missed that opportunity. That was particularly true with some experiences that I had had with my twin sister. And I was able, as a result of the experience, the near death experience, I was able to share a lot more with her before she passed away.
JEFF: I see. That's a pretty poignant story. Did you share any intuitive experiences with your twin sister while growing up?
JOE: No, I don't think any more than most sister-brothers.
JEFF: Uh huh. Sometimes they say twins do that though.
JOE: Well I do know that she was extremely sensitive, and as a result she was having the same experiences I was having. What's interesting is that she chose to view them as being very detrimental, and went the sort of normal route I guess, sought assistance from people that she knew to try to get rid of her visions, or her experiences, wound up in the psychiatric realm. [JEFF: Really.] Yeah, and I felt, I feel that that was very destructive, because for a long time she was misdiagnosed, and given some very powerful medications.
JEFF: Yeah. That's a whole 'nuther program, which I have done and I will do again in the future, and that's a very sore subject with me, the whole psychiatric industry, if you want to call it an industry at all.
JOE: Right, exactly.
JEFF: You were able to then, through the NDE, basically come to some level of understanding and enhance your relationship with your sister, which is very nice to hear, is that correct?
JOE: Yes, and not only, you know, her, but the rest of my sisters and my family, as well as just the people I worked with.
JEFF: The issue of dying and then being brought back, we haven't finished with the story but I wanted to ask, what caused this physical shutdown? It sounds like you may have been poisoned, it sounds like something may have happened, what was the actual genesis of the problem?
JOE: [pause] Well.... I usually don't go into a lot of detail about that.
JEFF: Alright well don't if you're uncomfortable, it's perfectly fine.
JOE: I, I suspect the reason, but I'd rather not go into that.
JEFF: Well okay, I think we can read into that whatever we want to then, and we'll leave it alone. As far as coming back into your body, you said you sensed the presence of other aliens, entities, supernatural beings, whatever you want to call them, were you told at some point by one or more of these presences that you would be returned to your body, that it was not your time, how did that work?
JOE: My sense was that all of the communication was with the single unconditional loving entity that was the light, and the very loud message was that I was not supposed to die, that I had to return. I did not _want_ to return. I was extremely comfortable, and it's a place that was very rewarding to be in. But regardless of my arguing, I found myself returning.
JEFF: Interesting. Alright Joe, hang on here and we'll be right back with more here, with Sightings on the Radio with Mr. Joe McMoneagle.
[Real Audio Counter: 49:13:0]
JEFF: And welcome back now to our remaining few minutes of the first hour with Joe McMoneagle. His book MIND TREK, published by Hampton Roads Publishing in 1993, reprinted in 1997, the book is full of absolutely fascinating information, one of the most important books that I have read in years, and I would urge all of you to get it, Joseph McMoneagle.
JEFF: Joe, when you were out of the body and told that you were going to come back, and you didn't really want to, which we've heard many times over the years from people who've had these NDEs, what really got you back into your body, do you remember that moment, was it just an instantaneous awareness that you were back into the physical confines of a frame?
JOE: In fact, it was a, almost an audible and physical "snap" kind of a sense, and I sat bolt upright in the bed. I was in the hospital, and I just had a sheet covering me, and when I sat up I shocked the poor German patient that was in the bed next to me. Of course started telling that person in broken German and English all about God and the white light, and he ran out and got a nurse, and it turned out I'd been comatose for quite some time. They were all surprised. And I learned very quickly as a result that no one wants to hear about white lights and God. The military intelligence people came and got me with a car the next day and took me to a rest home in Munich, and I spent a couple weeks there while they examined my brain tissue to find out how [many] of my brain cells had died as a result, and I learned very quickly that no one wants to hear about it, so I stopped talking about it.
JEFF: Hmmn. Very interesting. Did you find shortly thereafter that your view of life had changed dramatically because of your experience?
JOE: Oh absolutely. I started having what I call 'spontaneous knowings,' I would just know things before they happened, or I'd know what someone was going to say to me or what they were thinking --
JEFF: What, did this happen once a day, or once a week --
JOE: It would happen three or four times a day. Initially it was very strong, it was occurring quite frequently. Over a period of time, I guess because I started shutting them out, or redirecting my attention, they slowly ebbed. I certainly lost my fear of death as a result. Which, it does not take the Army long to figure that out. Some very dramatic changes, there's a couple unique things that happened that aren't generally talked about. One is, you go through a period of _extreme_ depression, for about a six month period I was trying to think of many ways of taking my own life, so I wouldn't have to be here in this [primitive?] world anymore.
JEFF: No kidding -- is this something that other people who have gone through NDE's have reported or that you've read about --
JOE: No, I think it probably happens with many of them and they just don't talk about that phase.
JEFF: Oh. How interesting.
JOE: One of the things that does occur somewhere in that six month period, you reach a bottom point in that depression where you suddenly realize that, well since you know that consciousness continues, and you don't really cease to exist as an individual, there's no real reason to be depressed about where you are. It sort of gives you a freedom to play. And by play I mean, be able to make decisions now based on how you actually feel things should be, versus based on fear. Which is a very relieving kind of --
JEFF: What a liberation. My goodness. That's remarkable. That's one of the things that depression -- though let's talk about the other one after we break for news here Joe, it is the top of the hour [other chatter about upcoming radio items]
[Real Audio Counter: 01:00:20]
JEFF: And welcome back to hour number two, I'm Jeff Rense, you're listening to Sightings on the Radio, on the Premiere Radio Network. My guest tonight Joseph McMoneagle, back for his third visit on the program. Always a wonderful experience talking to Joe, he has been through so many things in life, we are talking now about the near death experience he had in 1970. And he made the unusual remark, and I haven't heard this too often and he went through why, that he went through a very severe period of depression for about six months after the near death experience, and actually considered suicide at one point to try to get back to that state of utter peace and tranquility, and the embracing of the universal consciousness. What other things Joe, did you experience as a result of this near -- you can almost call it an _after_ death experience, I guess, couldn't you?
JOE: Right, you know in fact, that's probably a more correct term. Obviously since I'm still here I might not have been as near death as I think I was, but... one of the major effects that you don't normally talk about but actually happens with nearly everyone, you have a tendency to look at your spirituality differently. People either go one of two ways after a near death experience, they usually externalize their spirituality and seek support, say from their formal religion or a religious leader. And usually the response is somewhat parochial, or dogmatic. And some of the dogmatic parts don't hold up any longer under the experience.
JEFF: I wouldn't think so.
JOE: Many people as a result then internalize it, it then becomes a, they embrace it more as a matter of conscience, and that drives the primary issues which are then addressed, which might be anything, from what the limits of personal responsibility might be, or, the redefinition of good and evil to 'constructive versus destructive,' more, something even more importantly, the fact that science and spirituality essentially can't ignore one another, that we as human beings are essentially built in two parts, one part is the physical or the science side, and the other part is very definitely the spiritual side. Integrate our appreciation for awareness [unclear] is what that means.
JEFF: When you see the news, read the newspaper, and you come across stories of death, tragedies, plane crashes, wars, how do you feel about the people that die now?
JOE: I don't, I actually don't feel badly about some of the people that die, or most of the people that die. Where my pain really exists is with the people that are left behind. We become very attached to one another in a relationship way, and you can't but feel the pain a parent has to the loss of a child. You can't help but feel the pain that a husband and wife might have should one of them depart. I think it would be nice for them to know in reality though that their loved one continues to exist as a conscious entity, and with a full identity.
JEFF: I think it merits repeating that by way of a statement to anyone listening tonight, about death, because we spend so much time -- that may be the ultimate question of course, during our time on this plane, our conscious time -- in your opinion, there is absolutely no reason to fear death?
JOE: That's correct. In fact, many of our decisions in life are made based on that fear. [JEFF: Oh yes.] Our actions from our political leaders all the way down to the homeless person on the street, is making decisions on a moment to moment basis on that fear of death, instead of making them on the constructive or the destructive possibilities. There are certainly times when decisions are very tough to make. And if we can understand that we have a certain moral obligation to other human beings, then we can make a more righteous decision if we're making it based on that, versus our fears of what we might have to contend with if we made those decisions.
JEFF: How do you feel after your experience Joe, about the taking of human life, about murdering, about killing, in uniform, about the actual participation in the ending of someone's conscious life on this planet?
JOE: I have a great problem with that now. Personally [pause] I have done a lot of things as a soldier that I probably wouldn't do again. I think every human being has a right to change, however. My conviction is, the conviction to which I'm wedded at the moment, is that every human being has as much right to life as any other. I was once a great supporter of the death penalty for certain crimes. However, in my experience I've now changed that position. I think that no human being has the right to take the life of another human being. No matter what the crime is that they might have committed. You do have the right to control them, to put them in prison or to punish them, but we do not have the right to take their life.
JEFF: Without getting too far afield, because the topic tonight is remote viewing, though this is all really tied together of course, in one continuum, what about the idea of organized religion, oppressing people through this fear technique, how do you view that now?
JOE: Well there are certain things about organized religion that are very appealing to a lot of people. And I don't have any great problem with many of the organized religions, or you know, wherever two or three or more people gather together to worship, I don't have a problem with that concept. Where I have a problem is when that particular organization starts alluding to a god that's an angry god, or a god that would murder --
JEFF: A vengeful god.
JOE: Yes, right, that would decree that you'd have to go out and murder your own family or something, to appease them, that's a little bit on the ridiculous side.
JEFF: Or others to protect the religion from encroachment, or rival religions [JOE: Exactly], and so forth and so on.
JOE: One of the things I've learned, because I've pretty much internalized my spirituality, and have pursued this philosophically, and one of the conclusions that I've come to... um, let's see, the best way to present this would be: I've never clearly understood in my own lifetime how anyone could voluntarily walk to their own death. And certainly the holocaust brings us an example of that. I could never understand why someone would allow someone that was evil incarnate, a Hitler for instance, to put them to death without at least fighting back. I've since, I've come to the conclusion that however, evil incarnate is not best fought by participation. It's fought by a participation or involvement, a total involvement, in the good, or the positive. And the only real response to evil incarnate is to ignore it, in the display of a positive or righteous attitude. So since death, physical death is not an end unto itself, the most appropriate response is to essentially turn the other cheek, or to walk to death with a smile on your face, and I never understood that before, but I think I finally have come to grasp with that, and have a tremendous respect for the numbers of people that chose to honor the positive and the constructive and in doing so give their lives.
JEFF: The antithesis of that I guess would be suicide.
JOE: Right, exactly. Suicide in my opinion is probably the greatest waste of all, because the person that commits suicide is essentially saying they have no value. And I believe that everyone has value, even in the act of death.
JEFF: They're also saying that people around them essentially have no value either, to them.
JOE: That's correct. It's just the ultimate decision of ignorance perhaps. Or the ultimate decision of fear.
JEFF: Why, Joe, after all of this, experience and profound nature of what you've been through, why are we here?
JOE: You know, during my near death experience, the only thing that seemed to me was something that I was actually taking with me, was the essence of my experience. So the only conclusion that I've been able to come to is perhaps one of the reasons we're here is for experience. You know, how could every day, an ordinary experiential life, be of any value? Well, it's of value if we're unsure of what we are in the totality of self, if we don't really know what kind of creatures we are, the only way that we can discover the limits of those creatures, ot the limits of ourself, is to experience as much as we can.
JEFF: Well, that's very well said, well taken. Let's take a break here Joe, and we'll be right back, forgive the interruption. We shall continue here at Sightings on the Radio, in about three minutes. We'll be right back.
file 2 of 5 in a series
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Joseph W. McMoneagle