firedocs media/politics article

Section: Psi-Tech Says The Past Didn't Happen

In response to the re-publication, online, of the three articles from the 1993 NM MUFON News newsletters, it was apparently the contention of either Mr. Dames or his girlfriend/VP Joni Dourif that the articles were inaccurate. Joe Murgia asked me to post all this information. He says when he provided it on the Psi-Tech BBS, it was (repeatedly) deleted. Since (a) media articles are a form of history, and (b) public attacks on individuals (in this case, the credibility of the journalists) who do not have the online outlet to defend themselves seems quite unfair to me, I have agreed to make this information available on my own site.

Posted on the Psi-Tech BBS:

>Conference: Gossip
>From: Joni (
>Topic: Pregnant Martians Pursue since 1993....
>Date: Monday, March 10,1997 01:59 PM

>In 1993 an article, written by Ms. Duce Ashe, appeared in the New Mexico
>Mufon Newsletter and then, appeared in UFO Magazine.

Carolyn: True. You might also recall that Antonio Huneeus also wrote about Maj. Dames, PSI-TECH, the Martians and The Federation in a two-part article published in [FATE Magazine] in September and October, 1993 (Mr. Huneeus used a picture I had taken of Maj. Dames at the TREAT conference).

>The Article's Author, Carolyn Duce-Ashe is an artist living in Corrales
>New Mexico. She is also assistant state director of NM MUFON and the
>editor of NM MUFON News.

Debby: Artist, true. No longer affiliated with NM MUFON but was at that time. Is now Editor of La Mirada (formerly NM MUFON News). Debby Stark is Producer.

>This article has been pestering Major Dames since it came out. I think,
>because it is the only one to claim that "he actually stated" these wild
>things. However, the interview was not recorded verbatim (or even close)
>to what Ed had conveyed to the writer. She misinterpreted and manipulated
>the story to fit their readership. That is why Ed, has since refused to
>give interviews or speak at other MUFON or UFO conferences.

Debby: Of course, that's not the way we remember it. The way we remember it is recorded accurately in all our stories about Mr. Dames and his interesting work. Indeed, Mr. Dames okayed them all. I recall sending him copy for one writen based on a telephone conversation I had with him, and receiving back his corrections to the copy, in writing, on the copy itself. We weren't out to hurt or pester him; indeed, it was fun to think that Martians might be hiding somewhere in The Land of Enchantment... I don't recall though if I still have this telltale bit of paper. I guess I didn't think (silly me!) that he'd, ah, forget... Maybe he should remote view the whole thing and correct himself! :) He can think back to that evening in the lobby at the Holiday Inn Pyramid north of town and that cheesy piano player and the full-blast fountain and our sitting between both sources of noise.

Carolyn: Another story about the "pregnant martians" was written by an eye and ear witness who saw and heard Major Dames talk about them at the 1993 TREAT Conference in Santa Fe. It supports the reports we did based on our later interviews with him. I also recall that Major Dames congratulated us on our accurate reporting of what he said. I will be addressing this in our next issue of La Mirada.

>On Feb. 19, 1997, Ed spoke at the L.A. Mufon chapter meeting to clear up
>the confusion and rumours that have been wildly flying around since that
>'93 article. The talk was recorded on Videotape and will be available
>from Lightworks sometime soon.

Debby: Can I have a free copy? We helped make him famous! It costs how much? Well, I'll just have to live with my memories...

Following are notes from Joe Murgia, as well as quotes from another article or two on this subject.

UFOJoe: Still think that Carolyn misinterpreted and manipulated the story? Read on.. By the way Joni, before you say libelous things about a person, you should get your facts straight.

Author Antonio Huneeus (Not connected to Carolyn and Debby) wrote the following in an article entitled UFO Chronicle in the September 1993 issue of FATE magazine. Which is available for $5.00 through the publisher. I highly suggest this issue because it also contains an article written by Ingo Swann entitled On Remote-Viewing,UFOs and Extraterrestrials. I have taken (brief) excerpts and placed them below.

First, here is Antonio's articles. He is writing about what Major Dames has conveyed to him regarding different types of aliens. - Joe Murgia


[quote] ...The large headed "greys" commonly associated with abduction experiences, are androids servicing the craft of the physical aliens in underground parking facilities in Mars, the Moon and Earth, among other places.

[quote] If this is not enough, Dames and his associates at Psi-Tech first discovered by RV and then located geographically a so-called "contact site" near Chaco Canyon in northern New Mexico, which has been visited by a number of scientists who have installed all kinds of equipment to detect and measure anomalies.

[quote] ...Moreover, Psi-Tech's work in the first site led to the discovery of a second site, also in New Mexico, where a group of female aliens with hybrid children are said to be in a state of hibernation at an underground alien facility. It is Dames' hope that he and his associates will somehow be able to "facilitate", the coming out of these aliens, an event which will be broadcast to the whole world if it happens. "We want the face to face," he told us during a follow-up telephone conversation after our original interview. "If we don't have it by the end of August, we are getting out of the UFO game..."

(Regarding Mars in the same article)

[quote] ...The full story, he says, will appear in a book that he, Psi-Tech Vice President David A. Morehouse, and a professional N.Y. writer, are finishing at this very moment. So, stay tuned for future revelations on this matter, as well as for any dramatic events that may-or may not-come about at the mysterious contact sites in New Mexico...

UfoJoe here again: Female aliens with hybrid children?. Sound familar? Maybe Mr. Huneeus also misinterpreted and manipulated Major Dames' words to fit his readers interests. Now read excerpts from a one on one interview done with Major Ed Dames also by Antonio Huneuus. I believe in the LA MUFON meeting, which I have a tape of, a person asks Major Dames about hybrids. He says something to the effect of "there are no hybrids".

Here's the 1993 interview. - Joe Murgia

AH: "You have recently spoken about hybrids?"

ED: " We feel strongly that there will be hybrids living with us within the next 80 years, hybrid alien-humans. We'll back it up and defend it as much as possible, and we have tangible information behind this."

(A couple of questions later...)

AH: "Do you think there is a connection we have with aliens that goes all the way to the past, along the lines of Zeharia Sitchin or something like that?"

ED: "I don't know, but I will say that the controlling authority, which is at a distant point beyond our own galaxy, makes the decisions for all these technical missions that we see. They can see ahead, and they're the ones who decided when to introduce the hybrids. They didn't introduce then in the 14th century, or in 1900, they're going to introduce then within the next couple of decades. They're the ones who made that decision, so they can see whether or not, by analysis or extrapolation or whatever, when was the best time to do this. It's an amazingly elegant algorithm and these guys have worked it out well. They're a lot smarter than us, really very smart. We are flat landers compared to them, really flat landers. We live in a two dimensional world compared to them. They can see over the horizon and are trying to help us, but we don't understand. It's a complex issue."

Now quotes from Ingo Swann's article.

[quote] ...It is worth wondering how many of those claiming to remote view ETs bothered to look up RV's definition in the parapyschological literature. If they had, then they might have thought twice about claiming to be remote viewers...

UfoJoe here again: In defense of Major Dames, I believe Ingo means that they should call it something besides RV because it is missing one important protocol of RV, feedback on whether the RV sessions were accurate or not . I don't think he is saying that their data can't turn out to be correct, just that it shouldn't be called remote viewing. - Joe Murgia

Back to Ingo...

[quote] ...I will show ahead that anyone claiming to be a remote viewer or claiming to remote view ETS and UFOs is a sophister, one who had artfully but insidiously muddled up the established definition of RVing. - perhaps only because they haven't bothered to look it up...

[quote] ...Without feedback in some kind of form it cannot be known if the experiment worked..."

[quote] ...Feedback, then is not trivial or incidental to the remote-viewing process and protocols. It is CRUCIAL to them.

[quote] To simplify all this, we can resort to an easy-to-understand formula. Remote-viewing consists of five absolutely necessary ingredients:

1. Subject
2. active ESP abilities
3. distant target
4. subject's recorded responses
5. confirmatory positive feedback-all of which equals
6. the remote-viewing model

Nothing less is remote-viewing.

[quote] Those alleging themselves to be remote-viewers, then , cannot simply just "remote-view", but are obliged also to show positive evidence of their "viewings"-e.g. positive feedback, such "viewers" are merely ofering unsupported accounts that may or may not be of phychic origin. Remote- viewing is neither a novel psi ability, nor a convenient replacement term for psi, clairvoyance or ESP."

(UfoJoe here again) Regarding all the work that it took to build up RV's reputability and all the work that was done to fight agaist all of the "police-like sophister skeptics" bent on enforcing the scientistic orthodoxy that psi is non existent. Ingo says the following...

[quote] ...As a result of all these efforts, the term remote-viewing entered the language with something akin to scientific merit and it is this merit that a variety of individuals are now trying to colonize in attempts to imply merit for their self-styled psychic espionage attemps regarding UFOs and ETs....

(UfoJoe here) In defense of UFO "Rving", Ingo says...

[quote] ...I'm not at all saying that psychic perceptions cannot be applied to the ET-UFO situation. I've openly suggested this potential data-source myself. But if psychic data is derived via many people wanting to contribute it, still the hard issue of feedback is a crucial determinant regarding what to make of that data...

(UfoJoe here) More on ruining Rving's reputation...

[quote]...I fully believe that many people have correct psychic intuition, feelings or even hunches concerning UFOs and Ets. I certainly have some of my own, and it is desirable to encourage the wider publication of them-but only as such. If these important definitional boundaries are not understood and maintained, the ultimate result will be an ambiguous definitional quagmire of benefit to no one, and the demolition of what the remote-viewing protocol achieved in terms of respect and repute.

[quote] I do not excuse myself from this sensible, and ethical, mandate. Since 1971, I've participated in well over a million remote-viewing excercises, and rigorously dissected its psi-perceptual processes. But I've never said I was a "remote-viewer", or claimed to use "remote-viewing" as an ability. Remote-viewing is a format, and only the feedback of each separtate remote-viewing has taken place.

[quote] In a very literal sense, then, it is the positive feedback that is remote-viewing. Without the fomer the latter cannot be said to exist, and clearly no utilitarian value of it can be percieved."


Carolyn and Debby's new newsletter La Mirada is out and this month's issue focuses on the Ed Dames "pregnant martian" debacle. It has an article where another source says she pretty much heard Major Dames say the same thing as all of the other people in attendance. There were about 10 ufologists present at this off to the side little session that Major Dames held after his TREAT V (1993) lecture. Sorry this part wasn't recorded so you have to either believe Joni or everybody else. Either they're covering up a prediction that didn't come to pass or they're hiding the truth about the Martians for some reason. I'll leave the door open for them to explain this to all of us.

If you want info on how you can receive this latest edition of La Mirada email Debby Stark at The issue is one dollar and fifty cents. They also sell all of their back issues which contain all of the articles that started this mess in the first place. See Ya, Joe

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