Tom Snyder Show
Thursday, February 1st, 1996
Television USA. Transcript courtesy of Dave Neufer.
Tom You know, it may surprise you to hear that in the mid 1970's and 1980's, the US Army spent twenty million dollars to recruit people with extrasensory powers to locate everything from American hostages to lost missiles. These people are called remote viewers and Joe McMonEagle was one of them. He is also the author of a book about these powers called "Mind Trek." And it's good to have you on our program... and I'm sorry that before the commercial, I mangled your name. McMoneagle. Mr. McMoneagle. Thanks for coming on.
Could you define in more detail than I just did a remote viewer? What is that?
Joe A remote viewer is different than what you would call the "normal" psychic in that the normal psychic doesn't perform under specific protocals... scientifically approved protocals. The remote viewer always does the work within a protocal that's been reviewed and established as valid.
Tom In other words you're not a performer, you don't bend keys...
Tom You're not a mind reader, you can't tell me what my social security number is...
Tom And you don't fortell the future.
Joe Uh, no.
Tom So what is it that you are able to do as a remote viewer? For example I mentioned that you were able to locate missing hostages in Iran. If you could just take me through that process... what you had to do to accomplish that feat?
Joe Uh, the way they started out is, they might have given us, like eighty-five photographs, black and white photographs, and then we would go through those photos and try to decide which ones were the hostages. That's sort of a check and balance type thing? And then once having decided which were the sixty hostages or the fifty-four hostages, then they might ask us specifically about two or three of the individuals. In the case of three or four of the hostages, they weren't being held within the Embassy grounds like the rest. So they would ask us to give them descriptions about where they might be held. And we would do that. And then you would take that information and check it with people who are familiar with the downtown Tehran area.
Tom So then in your job they would bring you a picture, lets say of a guy, ok...
Tom And you would look at this picture and now what happens as you look at this picture?
Joe Generally, it's just a matter of umm, imagining what's going on with that particular person. You're opening your mind to, uh, whatever senses that you might have about where he might be held. You will get images, you will get sounds, smells, feelings. And it's a translation of that information. Or trying to turn that information into something that might be...
Tom So as you looked at this photograph you would begin to experience sensations, you would see locations.
Tom You pick up some sensory information of where this individual might be... where he could be located.
Joe Right, exactly.
Tom And how long have you been able to do this?
Joe I've been doing remote viewing under the protocals now for a little over 18 years.
And when you say "the protocals," tell me what that means.
Joe What that means is the specific methodologies that have been developed for applications within the inteligence community, or within the research community.
Tom I still don't understand what that means.
Joe Oh ok. What that is, it's a specific scientific methodology that's followed... that's replicated, that's always done exactly the same way in order to preclude any fraud, to preclude frontloading of the individual who's actually doing the remote viewing.
Tom So when you say "methodology," this is the method by which you achieve the ability to bring forward these images, sensations, sights, sounds, smells... that the method... every time that you're presented with the photograph, you use the same method every single time.
Tom It never varies.
Joe Right, exactly.
Tom Now, at one time you were tested by the Army...
Joe Um hum.
Tom Tell me about that, because they tested you to determine you're ability to be a person who has the ability to do remote imaging.
Joe Well, initially what they did was they ran through a couple hundred individuals, they did interviews with these hundreds of people, and they selected those people for the interviews based on whether or not they were successful; whether or not they were taking, willing to take risks; how good they were at their jobs; that sort of thing. And then out of those people, the ones who were indicative of having an open mind, or were open to the subject of the paranormal, those were gone through, essensially in a secondary interview. And then they sent us out to SRI International, the ones they selected, to be exposed to the remote viewing protocols, and then to actually do some remote viewing.
Tom And then was there not a branch of the Army that was set up, and there were a number of you who were able to do remote viewing, or remote imaging, and you were assigned various tasks. You were given certain things to do in terms of finding stuff out.
Joe Right, exactly.
Tom Ok. Now, so, and one of those, like tracking nuclear weapons, I think you say in this book "Mind Trek," it is very important that we should know where nuclear weapons are, that they're moving into the hands of different political powers day by day, and we should have that information.
Joe One of the amazing things about remote viewing is the specific targets that they're probably most accurate with, are high energy type targets, or targets that have high energy chain state. And uh, nuclear material has that kind of energy. And historically we've always done very, very well with nuclear targets. So in this age of the attempts for venting the proliferation of nuclear weapons, or the spread of nuclear material, remote viewing could provide a substantial help for that.
Tom You say we've had remarkable success, could you give us an example of something that's come from remote imaging that's turned out to be truley useful information that has helped us in terms of our national security?
Joe Oh sure, in one case we were targeting a building, that was a very large building in the northern part of the USSR. And, no one knew what was going on inside the building. And targeting that building, I drew out a drawing of a submarine, I described its uh (canad) tubes, how many tubes it had, a large flat area on the rear deck, described it as a large submarine, and it was a new Typhoon Class Submarine. We were able to predict when it was actually going to be rolled out of the building, and in that way they were able to target other collection systems.
Tom And all this you did doing remote viewing?
Joe Yes, from Virginia.
Tom And you would go to your office in the morning, I assume like most people, 8 - 8:30 in the morning, work an eight hour day, and you would have a desk, and they would bring you things and say, here, work on this.
Joe Right. Generally speaking it was an eight hour day, sometimes it was more than that.
Tom (Sigh) Unbelievable! Um, you don't have trouble getting to sleep at night, do you?
Tom Do you really?
Joe (laughter) Yes.
Tom Sometimes it's hard to turn the pictures off, is it?
Joe Uh no, it's, the spontenaity of it sometimes happens, but generally speaking it's something that takes a lot of focus and it takes a lot of practice.
Tom Ok. Were talking tonight with Joe McMoneagle. His book is called "Mind Trek." We'll take a fast break here and be right back on the Toll Free at 800-952-2788 after these messages...
(Commercial break, then Tom banters with a caller about Thousand Island Dressing...)
Tom ... anyway, say hello to Joe, he's right here.
Caller Yes, uh, Joe. I have a question for you. How accurate have you been, what's your track record? For instance if you're given a task, how often do you come up correct or do you complete the task?
Joe Statistially, actually, over 18 years, counting research and collection type targets, I'm accurate about 53 percent of the time, I'll hit the target. And when I hit the target, I'm usually doing anywhere from 60 to 85 percent correct information.
Tom So roughly one out of two, you're on target.
Tom What was the toughest one, or the one you couldn't do? Or the biggest dissapointment?
Joe My biggest dissapointment is whenever I'm being asked to look for uh, young children. And it doesn't seem to work sometimes, so...
Tom Owen, I'm glad you called, this is interesting stuff, isn't it?
Caller Yes it is. Thank you very much, Tom.
Tom Ok. Thanks for calling, my friend. Bye.
Tom You did a program for ABC, was it Prime Time Live or a documentary? Anyway, you went to Houston, and on a film or videotape basis you were able to find tourist attractions in Houston, never before having seen them. Was that difficult for you?
Joe Uh, it's difficult doing it in front of a camera, because you know you're doing it live, but it was no more difficult than doing it normally.
Tom Except that I would think that the performance aspect might have gotten in the way of it because then, aren't you getting away from these things called "protocols" that you mentioned?
Joe Well, no. The ABC Special was actually done under the protocols...
Joe And one of the understandings that we had at the beginning was that it could fail. And if it failed, that's the way it goes.
Tom Hey, some you win, some you lose. Faye, Austin, Indiana, hello.
Caller Hi. I wanted to ask your guest if he did remote viewing on a person, would he be able to tell if a person was dead or alive, or would he be able to get the sensations if the person was dead?
Joe Sometimes you're able to get the perceptions of whether they're dead or not. Actually, when locating people, that's one of the most difficult things you can do with remote viewing. And locating a live person because they're moving, the descriptions of the locations are constantly changing. Locating someone who's decesed is sometimes easier.
Tom What would happen if you looked at a picture of Jimmy Hoffa for a long time?
Joe I'd probably get an impression of lot of concrete.
Tom (cracks up) Oh, jeez. Oh my God! You almost sound as if you've done that?!
Joe I've played around with it. (laughter)
Tom Anything else we can do for you Faye?
Caller No, that was all. Thank you.
Tom Thanks for calling, have a nice evening. You know this program that you were involved in with the United States Army came in for some ridicule towards the end of last year. A lot of people thought it was psychic, that it was play acting, that it was reading tea leaves. Why do they get this impression because you're obviously a very serious man who takes this assignment to heart. This isn't play acting for you at all.
Joe Well, one of the problems is that there was a report that came out, that was published by the American Institutes for Research and it was a very poor report. It gave a lot of bad press to the remote viewing and its applications in intelligence. The problem was, in that particular report, they only looked at the last year of the 24 years of the program. They kept referencing the NRC Report which was done in '89 and was found to be a disaster in terms of review. Even the statistical methods they used in the NRC Report were found not to be valid. Most of the people involved in the AIR Report were scientists that were biased in the beginning, so... [shrugs]
Tom Well, listen. It's been really interesting to hear you tell these stories, and I thank you for coming on here. And thanks from all of us for the good work you did on our behalf through the years, sir...
Joe Oh, thank you.
Tom My pleasure. Joe McMoneagle is the guest and the book is called "Mind Trek." It's in the stores now. If you have interest in this sort of stuff, you'll find all the answers, or most of the answers right here.
Transcriber Dave Neufer.
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