This was transcribed by Kay Grissom

3-6-97

Art Bell Interview with Major Ed Dames and guest Kathy Kramer (Philip Taylor Kramer's sister)

[begin]

Bell: I'm Art Bell and let me tell you what is about to occur. We have with us, Kathy Kramer, sister of the missing Philip Taylor Kramer and we, of course, did rather an extensive program on that, during the course of which, Kathy requested that Ed Dames... if he would be willing... would take a look at her brother's disappearance. He has done so and we are going to just lay it out for you the way it is. It doesn't always come out the way you want would be my warning for what is about to come. Now, following that, we will keep Ed Dames on. I have about a gadzillion questions for him and areas that I want to cover with Ed. So, that is what is going to occur tonight. Tomorrow night, Alan Hale, the co-discoverer of the Hale-Bopp comet, will be here. Then, Monday night/Tuesday morning, I thought I would tell you just a little bit ahead of time that Jim Berkland... who has done a remarkable job predicting earthquakes... a geologist who, by the way, just made it into "Who's Who in America'... .congratulations Jim Berkland. Monday night/Tuesday morning, he will be my guest and he says, ‘hot times they are a coming'. You can look forward to that one. So, off to tonight's show in a moment.

(commercials)

Bell: Alright, there are a lot of new affiliates out there who probably don't know who Philip Taylor Kramer is or, for that matter, who Ed Dames is... the program has been growing so quickly. Let me begin by telling you, on my web page tonight, in the guest area you will see a link to Kathy Kramer's web page: sister of the missing Philip Taylor Kramer, base player for the group that produced, directed... that I have, actually, been using for bumper music... occasionally... .lately... ..that song ‘Inna Gada Da Vita' by Iron Butterfly. I don't think he was there then but he was part of that group... the base player for Iron Butterfly.. He disappeared. He was a scientist into all kinds of interesting things like the MX missile guidance system, fractal technology, data compression schemes and all kinds of things that were on the cutting edge of technology. One day, at the Los Angeles airport, he just disappeared. We did a program on that. It seemed, obviously, a natural for a remote viewer and we will give you a somewhat brief explanation of remote viewing when we get Ed Dames on. It seemed a natural, possible project if Ed Dames would take it. He agreed to do that and we're going to discuss the results tonight. Now, obviously, we're not going to do this raw on the air and we notified Kathy Kramer... .prior to the program... of the result because it is not necessarily positive in the sense that Ed Dames sent me the following: "Dear Art, 1.Philip Taylor Kramer is dead 2. Foul play was involved 3. PSI TECH has a site description for the location of Kramer's badly decomposed body, in the state of Montana. We are continuing our work, as promised. We will keep you and key federal, state, and local officials informed. "That is all the news that I've had about Philip Taylor Kramer. There is more that we are all about to find out, including Kathy, and I want to bring Kathy on first, for a moment."

Bell: Hi Kathy. Are you there? oh, it would appear that Kathy is not there. I can see I am really going to have fun with my phone lines tonight so I am going to have to get Kathy back on the line. It may be one of those nights. Occasionally I tend to suffer, I'm afraid, at the hands of the phone company that bears my name. So, we will do this and get Kathy right back.

(commercials)

Bell: Here she is, I think, Kathy Kramer. Hi, Kathy.

Kramer: Hi.

Bell: Oh good you're here.

Kramer: Ok, we did it.

Bell: Sheesh.

Kramer: Good evening.

Bell: Good evening. You have known, for about... .what would you say, Kathy... about a week ... a week ago or a little more I called you and gave you the brief information that Ed Dames faxed to me?

Kramer: Yes.

Bell: Your brother, Philip Taylor Kramer, disappeared how long ago?

Kramer: It's been... February 12th, this year, was the second year anniversary so it's now going on 3 years.

Bell: Into the 3rd year.

Kramer: Yes.

Bell: There was a recent flurry, in the last few days, when you thought perhaps... the police thought perhaps ... and I guess you... that they may have located his remains... his body... but that has turned out to be a dead end, is that correct?

Kramer: Ya, as far as we know. We don't have the official reports from the Los Angeles coroner but, as far as we know, it's not my brother because of dental discrepancies.

Bell: Ok, and these are remains that were found near the site, I guess, where he made his 911 call.

Kramer: Yes, the area is within about 3 or 4 miles...

Bell: Of that. Well then I can imagine why you would think that might have been it but, anyway, that turned out to be a dead-end.

Kramer: Right.

Bell: Since the last program, Kathy, that we did... or that we did with you... I take it our show produced quite a number of leads.

Kramer: If I remember correctly, it was over 500 calls and, as many as I could, I sent out fliers to different people and spoke with some people. Still, we just don't... we had one group of people, who are Art Bell listeners in San Diego, that said that they would gather and dispense fliers and everything. I had a very supportive response from a lot of people.

Bell: Well, that's wonderful. I understand we actually produced more calls than the TV show.

Kramer: That's right.

Bell: That's amazing. That really is amazing.

Kramer: We had calls from Canada. We had calls from all over the United States and we had a lot of people call.

Bell: Well, I wish that the news, Kathy, was better and I understand... I hear you coughing... I know you got the flu on top of everything else... so, I'm gonna put you back on hold for a moment, Kathy, and bring Ed Dames on so everyone understands what it is they're about to hear so sit tight for just a minute. Ed, are you there?

Dames: I am here.

Bell: Well, miracle of miracles. Thank you, phone company and there is a weblink to Ed's site on my webpage tonight, as well. Ed has a new webpage and I imagine it is even further developed than the last time we spoke, Ed. So, if you want to go to Ed Dame's website, just go to mine and jump across. Ed, can you give us a 6 minute explanation of what you do so everyone will understand what it is they are about to hear? I know it is tiresome to repeat it but, what is... please... remote viewing... short version.

Dames: Art, the short version is what my company does for a living and that is Technical Remote Viewing. Technical Remote Viewing is, essentially, using an innate psychic ability... one that we're born with... it's a trained ability... and the training technique was formerly a top secret technique used by the Department of Defense. I was the operations and training officer for the team that employed it successfully in mostly terrorist operations, drug enforcement operations, those kinds of things.

Bell: By the way, Ed, this really is important because there are a lot of people who will criticize you when you say you were part of the military program. Listen to me folks, say what you will, but I have a copy of Ed's complete military records and what he's telling you is exactly correct. I decided I want to set everybody straight on that particular point. Your military record, Ed, was absolutely exemplary.

Dames: I had a fairly sterling career but I stepped down from fairly celestial levels of intelligence to take the job of operations and training officer in the remote viewing unit because it was, to me, the most significant and the best intelligence collection tool that I had. So I stepped down from... as a targeting officer... an engineer of intelligence operations... to being a participant in just one of the many aspects of intelligence but this one was a very unique one. What we did, was use this tool to locate terrorists, hostages, to accurately describe... not only the location... but the mind state and the health state of both the terrorists and the hostages. We located downed aircraft from various wars and any number of things in support of, not only intelligence operations, but in support of regular military operations both tactical and strategic.

Bell: Delineate, if you would... this will make it easier for everybody... what's the difference between what a psychic does and what you do?

Dames: A psychic is a person who is naturally gifted, to the right on a bell curve of natural performance. A psychic is generally not very consistent in their data. A very good psychic, and there are only a handful in the United States, can really describe a target... a person, place, thing or event... very well... sometimes. The problem is, both the psychic and the information ... people who are acquiring the information produced by the psychic... do not know when the information is correct and when it is not. The tools that we use, and that we did use in the military and applied them when deadly force was used or in cases where life or death situations prevailed, is an extremely accurate tool. We trust it and it is depended upon. This tool is used to gain information on a target. A target by definition, a simple target, is a person, a place, a thing or an event. This is what I have been trained to do and have been doing for 13 years and this is what my company trains professionals to do now... to solve problems.

Bell: Alright and your company, when it undertakes a project, it is not Ed Dames alone who goes into a room and goes into some sort of altered state and comes up with the answers. It is a group of remote viewers who are given random numbers as target information and, in order for a commercial contract to be completed with 100% accuracy, there is a whole group involved... correct?

Dames: There are 6 to 8 team members. I have about 30 individuals who work for the company and we divide them up into teams depending on the operation. We usually use 6 to 8 teams members and they work individually and they work independently. Most of the time the individuals do not know what the target is when they first start but, remember, these are trained psychics... technical remote viewers are trained... so after about 20 or 40 minutes of working, they are going to know where they're at. When they start out in the blind, so to speak, and that is the term that we use... eventually they're going to know what they're working... whether it's the TWA ft.800 explosion or a missing person.

Bell: Alright, it is possible, Ed, to remote view an object or a person or an event in current time... in our present time line... or in the future... or in the past... and obviously, it is possible then to remote view the location of what was a person... somebody who has now passed away... is that correct?

Dames: That's correct. The search terms that we use, and this is very much like searching a database or the Internet... .very similar... the terms that we use... the words or ideas... the concepts or ideas have a meaning all their own. We go after patterns of information as they exist in the collective unconscious so we will look for someone like Philip Taylor Kramer and then we will append that idea. If we just look at a person... we are just remote viewing a person... the viewer can come in onto that person's life at any time but if conscious attention and unconscious attention is directed toward qualifying that term: for instance... present location... then we are going to go to that person's present location... if that person's deceased, we will go to a grave site. In the case of things like Jimmy Hoffa, where we think we are dealing with an acid bath, there is no site at all... we simply get the bottom of a pond or something like that... but we know that is the location because of the way that we're trained and the consistency of the data.

Bell: Alright, when you undertook the job of looking for Philip Taylor Kramer, what assets did you apply to the task?

Dames: Our assets are our tools, our tools are our remote viewers, our trained remote viewers.

Bell: Well, I guess I am asking, how much of a project was it?

Dames: Well, it's ongoing. What we do first is ascertain whether the target is dead or alive, that is the first thing we're after. Very quickly, within a matter of 20 minutes on the part of each viewer, we were able to determine that the target, Mr. Kramer, was dead.

Bell: Alright, I take it then, the details beyond that... significantly more difficult because you're looking and trying to identify a physical area...

Dames: Some of the details are not that difficult but the locational data, if we are in a homogeneous area, can be quite difficult. That was true when we did work for the FBI on the Unabomber. There is another set of individuals who are involved in the Unabomber case, as I've mentioned, and finding them in the city and in the Midwest was very difficult because there are many areas that are homogeneous in nature... they all look and feel the same. It took a matter of a few weeks to locate other individuals. It is the same with the Taylor case. We are dealing with a site, a burial site. We are dealing with a murder so...

Bell: Was this, the Taylor case, more or less difficult than other missing persons that you've looked for or had to go looking for?

Dames: It's about the same. The grave site is...

Bell: Alright, hold that information, Ed, we're at the bottom of the hour and when we come back I want to bring you both on. Alright, so that is a brief description, which I felt necessary for the newbies out there, of what remote viewing is. It was a project ongoing in military services for 20 years, with taxpayer dollars. There was a Night line program devoted to remote viewing when the news broke that the government had been doing it. So, when we come back, Kathy Kramer and Ed Dames and whatever information Dames has... Kathy is about to get and I will give her the opportunity to ask questions. So that's coming up, that is the setup for it and we'll move on from there.

[break]

Bell: Well, alright, here we go. As promised, once again, here is Kathy Kramer... Kathy?

Kramer: Yes.

Bell: OK. I want to give you an opportunity to listen and then ask Ed Dames whatever you want to ask him so... here it comes or here he comes, actually, Ed.

Dames: Hi.

Bell: OK. You are both on the air and go right ahead.

Dames: Miss Kramer, do you know anything about PSI TECH at all?

Kramer: I have done a bit of reading but I am in the learning stage right now.

Dames: I have been informed that you have... that other remote viewers have passed information to you... other so-called remote viewers, is that correct?

Kramer: Yes, there was... Lyn Buchanan is in the process now of also doing some research.

Dames: And, uh, his research... has he come up with any data?

Kramer: Well, what I have... he has some information... we still have to wait for the final analysis.

Dames: Well, Lyn Buchanan worked for me, he was my database manager at the unit. He was not a remote viewer, in fact, I attempted to train him per his request. He did not complete the training course, because he did not have the discipline to do that, and for him to say that he was a remote viewer is tantamount to saying that an aircraft mechanic on the flight line saying he is a pilot. So, they may be able to take the plane up and down the runway but they can't take it off and they can't find their way back. What I am saying is that he does not possess the expertise, nor does anyone in the world outside of PSI TECH, use psychically derived data and guarantee the results. This is the kind of company that we are.

Kramer: Uh huh.

Dames: And we do guarantee our results. So then we say, not only is your brother dead... not only is he the victim of a homicide... and not only is he buried in the State of Montana... we are going to recreate the event.

Kramer: So that can be done as well?

Dames: That can be done. I was the operations and the training officer for the military team and this is what we did in the military, using your tax dollars, and it was a very classified unit but very effective. I took that expertise and founded PSI TECH in 1989. This is the kind of work we have been doing in the technology sector.

Bell: Ed, can you tell anything about the manner of the murder?

Dames: Philip Taylor Kramer was murdered in his own vehicle, he was shot. There were 3 other individuals in the van at the time and it appears that he was shot within the environs of Los Angeles and his body was transported to Montana.

Kramer: So these were people that he knew?

Dames: He knew the people, they were not strangers. I have other information but we should not discuss them on the radio because, now that this appears to be a basis for a criminal investigation, we should be starting that with the Ventura County Sheriff's Department and work our way up to Montana.

Kramer: Uh huh.

Dames: We have some details and they are very specific and very important details that can help solve what is now a murder case.

Bell: Without giving us the details, details what aspects, Ed.

Dames: Details of the relationship of the individuals to Kramer and why the relationship meant he might have allowed them in his auto. There was a prior relationship.

Kramer: Would you think it from technology?

Dames: No, it does not appear to have anything to do with technology. I say, I do not want to get into too many details because we may blow the investigation. We are still going to find your brother's body but we want the law enforcement authorities to bring the murderers to justice in which case we can't talk about the specifics.

Bell: Ya, if we talk about motive, that would begin to identify...

Dames: And there are some other things, too, that may be embarrassing to the family and I don't want to go into those on the radio.

Bell: I can accept that. You said something to me, Ed, about the location of the body. You thought... or you think... it is near a body of water.

Dames: It's not that we think, we know that it's next to... and I hope the murderers are listening right now... it's next to a river, a small river in Montana. If they go back and attempt to retrieve the body... I don't think anyone would do that in the state that it's in right now. We know that it is very decomposed because the river has risen periodically and flooded the area where the body is... the body is very badly decomposed... but if they did attempt to retrieve it, we'd know, using the techniques that we have and that would give us much easier access to the murderers.

Kramer: Do you have a feeling... are you aware of the 911 call my brother made?

Dames: I am aware of the information. It is important for you to understand that when my company executes a mission like this, we go into the problem with no preconceived notions whatsoever, although, we may have ideas ourselves. For instance, I really believed that TWA800 was subject to a bomb attack, but when we remote viewed it, it was a broken piece of the aircraft. When we go into a problem... I actually thought, just intuitively, that your brother may have just taken off and gone into hiding somewhere... as people occasionally do... but I was wrong. Twenty minutes into the session I realized that I was dealing with a deceased person. Did you have other questions, right now?

Kramer: I just wondered what he was trying to say. Those were the last words that we had.

Dames: I think he knew that he was going to be killed.

Bell: Ya, that might make sense if you reflect back on what he said, Kathy. That could apply to a suicide or somebody who knew he was going to die.

Dames: Your brother was in trouble. I don't want to go further than that but he was. He got himself into a situation and it cost him his life.

Bell: Any of this ring as possible to you, Kathy?

Kramer: I don't know how to answer that.

Bell: Alright, look , Kathy let me ask you this way. Ed said there were some other things involved that would be better not talked about on the radio, would you agree with that?

Kramer: Ya, I want to know... if someone did this to my brother... .I want them brought to justice.

Bell: Of course, what I meant was, involvement's with other people... without being specific... obviously that would lead to a verdict.

Kramer: (Unintelligible)

Dames: Those are the things we don't want to go into but are very pertinent to solving the case. It is also important that I make clear to you at this point... I know that you believe that your brother should have been subject to an all points bulletin... virtue of the work he was doing. I used to hire people like your brother, I employed them, so let me explain to you why the FBI and other people were not hot on the trail of your brother when he turned up missing.

Kramer: Uh hum.

Dames: It's because of his clearance level. He did not have a high enough clearance level. Although he was involved in extremely important science... in the military industrial community that I used to belong to... very important science. He was not privy to how that science was applied... technology levels in a program. He might had deduced how his science was engineered into certain technology but he was never privy to the actual weapons, which are very secret, and your brother did not have access to that. If he did, within 24 hours, the FBI would have been looking for him... as well as other agencies... and that is the reason that they are not pursuing him forcefully.

Bell: Does that make sense, Kathy?

Kramer: My brother... I don't know... there are so many ways that this can go. That is one of the things that is so confusing about it... because of my brother's involvement with (indecipherable)... because of the reference to OJ Simpson and the 911 call... because of being Iron Butterfly... because of the number of business involvement's that he had... because of his behavior the last few weeks before he disappeared. Was it mental illness? It's enough to drive you crazy and so, what you're saying, it's a curious thing to me that with the clearance that he had... I work right near LAX and you go to lounges over there and hear people talk about this stuff.

Dames: Let's get back to the basics. The basics are that your brother was involved in a relationship. He knew the people in the van with him and one of those people pulled the trigger on him in his own car and transported the body to Montana. That is... my company stands by it. We have other information but that information we will have to pass to you and law enforcement officials privately.

Bell: Alright, Ed, how should the chronology of that go? In other words, should you speak first with law enforcement or concurrently with Kathy.

Dames: Concurrently.

Bell: Will your company or you be ready to do that?

Dames: We have some information that we can pass to Kathy post haste. We'd like to get an investigation going. There is information that could start this rolling and I think we'll start with Ventura County or something like that. It's Kathy's call, Kathy's call... what to do with the information and whether or not to do it and whether or not to trust PSI TECH.

Bell: Kathy?

Kramer: Ya, I want to learn more of the details because this is one of the very possible scenarios and I have some ideas on this as well.

Dames: You should never tell us your ideas because that is your control, I mean a control in an experiment. It's a way for you to know... to test the credibility... the voracity and the credibility of PSI TECH's information. Don't tell us what you know. We'll tell you what we know.

Kramer: Exactly, that's what I'm talking about. These are my ideas and my facts, I guess you could say, and what he had... and how much fits.

Bell: Alright, then let's do this, Kathy, with Ed's permission. Tomorrow or so I will give you a number for Ed.

Kramer: OK.

Bell: We'll get the two of you together and proceed from that point. Does that sound like the way to go?

Kramer: Yes, that sounds fine with me.

Bell: Ed?

Dames: That's perfectly logical, Art.

Bell: Alright, then Kathy, as far as the public end of it goes, we've said as much as we should say. Do you agree?

Kramer: Ya. I still have a lot of questions.

Bell: Ya, but I think they ought to come in private.

Kramer: Privately.

Bell: Alright. Kathy, thank you.

Kramer: Thank you so much.

Bell: Ed, stand by for just a second, we'll be right back to you. I'm sure the audience understands that to go further into the specific details than we just did would be to endanger any adductive result that might come from this. We gave you absolutely as much as we could give you. We've got lots of business to do with Major Ed Dames so we will get to that shortly.

[break]

Bell: Alright, back now to Ed Dames. Ed, you're there I presume.

Dames: I'm here.

Bell: I want to read you something, Ed, and what I want to do if I can, is get rid of the tough stuff first and then move on to... and I know you've got... and the audience should know... you've got some good news tonight, correct?

Dames: For a change, I have some good news.

Bell: For a change, some good news. Alright, and we will get to that but first, I have been in communication with... or I guess received a communication from... James Randi... so let me read that and let me get your response and add my comments.

From James Randi: "Art, I understand that Ed Dames made some false statements about me and my challenge, on his last appearance with you. I have informed him via email, and I hope that you will confront him with this the next time he is on your show, this is the message I sent to my list with a copy to

Dames: 'I have been informed that, on the Art Bell Show, the remote viewer Ed Dames claims that he has taken me up on my 1,094,000 dollar challenge but that I backed out for some reason. If Dames did indeed say that, he lied. I am also told that he thought that my financial backers would not put up money against him for fear of losing. If he said this he was, to my surprise, both wrong and misinformed. I have no backers to approve or disapprove my decisions. I have a board of directors and the board has given me the authority to make the challenge without prior approval. I have not the slightest fear that Ed Dames will take the prize. If he were to really apply for it, he would find that to be so, but he has never contacted me. I have never heard that he has any interest in doing so. If these reports, of what Dames said is true, he will be aping the others... unnamed... who choose to avoid confrontation with reality by saying the JREF is afraid to test them or that we tested them and they won but were not paid. Nonsense, such an event has never occurred. Ed Dames, do you wish to accept the challenge of the JREF as stated clearly at http://www.randi.org?"

So, there is, and I should add before you respond, Ed, after I got this... I called James Randi and spoke with him. I said, "James, if you feel this strongly about it, why not come on the air and confront Ed Dames in person?". He declined to do so and requested that I read this to you. So, he didn't want to come on the air and that is what he said, Ed, and if you want to respond you may.

Dames: I would love to respond, in fact, I have been trying to get a hold of Mr. Amazing Randi for quite a while, ever since individuals associated with his august organization have emailed me... very politely... over the year... last year... and said, 'Why don't you do this? Show how effective TRV works?" Our company felt that that was a good idea, to build up credibility in the publics' eyes of how effective we are. It would also be a lot of fun, too.

Bell: And a lot of money. It's a lot of money.

Dames: Well, yes, it's a lot of money but you know... very frankly... we could turn this into a media event and make as much money off of the media as we could relieving Mr. Randi of his mill. So, it's not just the money... it's proving... this is a very very important technology. If PSI TECH fails, and Technical Remote Viewing is found to be ineffective, we have set back our cause probably about a hundred years and we don't have a hundred years left. We do it for the fun and for the validation so I would love to talk with Mr. Randi. Can you call him up right now and we'll talk with him?

Bell: Well...

Dames: Does he not want to do that?

Bell: No, he doesn't want to do that, Ed. I think he's in Florida.

Dames: His challenge is to prove the existence of any paranormal phenomenon and, of course, he busted Uri Geller. Uri Geller did not have the psychokinetic effect on call and, evidently, says he caught him fudging on an experiment. We don't fudge. We were professionals in the military and we're professionals now in the corporate world and frankly, James Randi is going to meet his Waterloo if he gets his act together and we coordinate our activities. This radio program would be a good forum to do that. Let's agree, in the front of all of your listeners, exactly what we're going to do for this challenge and then allow your listeners and any other scientific board that is not associated either with PSI TECH or Mr. Randi's organization, to adjudicate and decide the outcome.

Bell: Alright, let me go further, Ed, and I don't think this is a good idea. He sent a follow up email to me...

Dames: Oh, by the way. We had representatives of your company call Mr. Randi and when our name was mentioned, PSI TECH was mentioned, Mr. Randi hung the phone up so he's a difficult man to get a hold of in person.

Bell: Alright. James Randi has a series of numbers that he sent me in an email that he claims is in his safe. I am not comfortable with this as a challenge so I'm not even going to present this to you because, number one, it is his safe... he's in control of these numbers and I don't think that would be an objective test. If you are willing to meet him head on, I will again contact James Randi and, if necessary, on the air we will come up with mutually agreeable terms for a test.

Dames: Perfect.

Bell: Because I don't think this would be... .I wouldn't even like it.

Dames: No, that is perfect, your suggestion is perfect.

Bell: Alright, we'll do exactly that. I wanted to handle the question of James. He's hot out there saying why you're lying and all the rest of it so...

Dames: Everybody has to meet their Waterloo and I think Mr. Randi's is coming.

Bell: $1,094,000, that's not bad anyway, under any circumstances. Alright, on to one other thing. One of the... during this video tape that I got to see... there were a whole bunch of questions, really good ones generated, I thought. Some of them spewed forth in a not very friendly way I must say but, nevertheless, good questions. One that you can settle for us right now is the following: "Ed, where is the verifiable evidence that PSI TECH can predict future geophysical events with 100% accuracy... or even 20% accuracy for that matter? You have never provided us any verifiable evidence in your interviews on Coast to Coast." In other words, a lot of people have screamed, "Give us something, an earthquake, a something or another, in the not too distant future that will help establish your credibility in that area." So, you can answer that any way you want.

Dames: Let me start with a little one, a tiny one. I mentioned, several of your shows ago that I have done, that anything in the development stages that are in shallow water; particularly eggs... frog eggs... fish eggs and things like that... are mutating and dying... in fact dying off... because of increased ultraviolet levels.

Bell: Bugs, fish, frogs...

Dames: Mostly frogs and things that are... a lot of sessile things. Insects are much more viable and we can get to those later.

Bell: Alright.

Dames: But particularly fish and amphibians. I think that it was only last week that the scientific community announced that sea urchin embryos were dying in Antarctica due to increased ozone. That is a little thing. Remember that intelligence, and Technical Remote Viewing was developed... I developed it as an intelligence collection tool... intelligence has to be predictive to be useful ... so that is what we do commercially... we predict. Now on the big things, I mentioned the jet stream dropping... on the very big things... like this little special delivery package that is associated with Hale-Bopp and that will eventuate the formation and or the delivery of a plant pathogen... something that will kill plants very quickly...

Bell: We better run over this a little more carefully, Ed, this is too big... there are new listeners.

Dames: Ok, let me reiterate then.

Bell: Hale-Bopp the comet, as we all know, now quite visible in the sky. On my last program, Ed said there was a cylinder with some sort of ... how did you put it, Ed... brown gook?

Dames: It's not necessarily... it was not necessarily a cylinder. It is a cylindrical area on... something that was imbedded in the comet and that detached and is no longer associated with the comet... it is heading for earth.

Bell: In other words, it has already broken away from the comet and she's on the way.

Dames: That is correct.

Bell: This object will, in effect, burn up or disintegrate in the atmosphere but not so totally that it will not deliver to the earth a plant pathogen... which will begin killing all green things... starting in Africa and spreading. Is that about correct?

Dames: That's correct, spreading rapidly.

Bell: Alright.

Dames: Now, luckily, yes... that is the kind of thing that is bigger than an earthquake and, by the way, we can do earthquakes and geophysical events... we really can.

Bell: Ok, let me stop you and ask you. Everybody pounds on me, and I know on you on the websites and all the rest of it, for timelines. What is your best guess with regard to when we will begin to observe the first affects in Africa?

Dames: We know that we're facing the beginning of a global economic collapse because of disease, not just plant diseases, in summer of next year so we expect to see dying plants by this time next summer.

Bell: Summer of '98.

Dames: Yes, but we could possibly see... we could possibly pick up the entry... it might look like a bolloid... the entry of this, let's call it a device... into the earth's atmosphere over Africa. It will be, probably, an anomaly.

Bell: But it will probably be reported as a meteorite or a small asteroid or something of that sort, I would imagine.

Dames: I would expect. I'm really not... the company, although it stands by the data... I really don't expect this kind of sci-fi prediction to be believable or believed by much of anyone. What we want to do is to put the information on the streets... say that we stand by it... so when these effects occur, then the additional information... subsequent information... modifying information that we can put out... then the credibility level will be higher and we will be able to provide survival information for people.

Bell: Well that's a hell of a way to have to establish credibility.

Dames: We can do it in a minor way, too, by finding missing people, reconstructing murder events, predicting the death of embryos, the dropping of the jet stream... it builds up.

Bell: Alright. I thought there were two good questions asked in the video tape so I will re-ask them here. One is, somebody said... the pathogen business... is it possible that it will occur or is occurring in some other timeline... that what you are looking at and getting, regarding the pathogen, will occur in some other dimension... some other alternative earth or time?

Dames: What we are talking about... I understand the question... as a simple man I am telling you... in terms of a military operation or a commercial operation... this is right around our corner... not another corner. This is going to happen, we will see it with our eyes. It is not a moving target in terms of what we are looking at in our future. No, we are not talking about another timeline... unfortunately... we are talking about our timeline... the one that we're on.

Bell: We are talking about the summer of '98 and we are not talking about a maybe... we are talking about a commercial-sized investigation... targeting of this that you have done so this is not a 70% probability, as far as you are concerned... it's an eventuality.

Dames: We are facing, in the summer of '98, the beginning of a global economic collapse... not caused by war or other things... but by disease.

Bell: And, to be fair, not only what is produced by the plant pathogen but a lot of other disease. Can you be more specific beyond the pathogen part?

Dames: Microbial attacks by virtue of many people dying... because the immune systems are suppressed when people starve... these pathogens are killing plants. I will have some positive survival related information later but because so many people will be dying... you have microbes having a field day and things like ebola in Africa and tuberculosis in the cooler climates... will begin to spread like wildfire as well as this plant pathogen. We will be attacked on all fronts but all microbial fronts.

Bell: Another very good question, I thought, connected with this. If all of this begins to occur with Africa and then the rest of the world, the question would be will seeds survive? That's a very good question because if we are ultimately to survive... some of us... we will eventually need plants and for that you need seeds... so it is a good question.

Dames: Seeds will survive as long as, in the next several years, they are protected from the environment. What we are seeing are something like spores that are airborne. These plant pathogens produce something like... let's call it a spore... this is an airborne problem If you are raising something from seeds, no matter how many seeds you have, it will still be decimated by this pathogen and we are still going to be stricken with these weather problems that will not allow us to grow food the way that we traditionally grow food... food crops. So, that you have that problem and a degrading atmosphere that's allowing decreased levels of ozone so the ecology, essentially, is collapsing around us.

Bell: How quickly will the weather continue to deteriorate because, I mean, we are already talking about events that are producing hundreds of millions of dollars of damage, lost lives, entire areas... thousands of people without homes... that kind of thing. That's with us now, that's not a prediction, well it was. It is today's reality. The question is, how much faster is it going to begin to... how much worse is it going to get, Ed?

Dames: It's going to get quite bad and a good index of how bad it is and how quickly it is becoming worse... is food crops. Start taking a look at food crops and expect some shortages and very high prices in food... very quickly. Crops simply, as I have mentioned so often before, crops simply cannot be raised in the same fashion that we have raised them in the last 100 years.

Bell: So, there will be new ways. Alright, Ed, hold on. We'll be right back with you. My guest is Major Ed Dames, PSI TECH's Ed Dames.

[break]

Bell: Alright, I'm going to lay this down as an example of what occurs with Major Ed Dames. He, of course, because of what he says... has his critics. Some of them not fully witted... in my opinion. I got a series of faxes over the last hour from some fellow named Charlie, in Houston. One of Charlie's faxes reads as follows:

"Art, ha funny! Why are you not confronting 'Major Head Games' with straight on questions? Don't give him a break. Ask him to answer a question that he must answer on the spot. He can spout off all sorts of bovine predictions... delayed by a couple of months... which is why he is getting out of the business. He can't answer a straight on question. He can't give you a definitive answer. He's not called 'Major Head Games' for nothing."

And so I thought, OK, and during the break I picked up the telephone and I called Charlie in Houston. "Who, this is Art Bell?"

"Yes it is. Charlie, would you care to put your mouth where your faxes are? Would you like to confront Ed in person? I'm calling you personally to give you this opportunity."

Long pause. Charlie thinks, apparently, as best Charlie can. Charlie finally says:

"No. Are we on the air?"

I said, "No, Charlie." He was worried we were on the air already, of course, I don't put people on the air without telling they're on the air. So, 'no, we're on a break. Do you want to go on the air and confront him in person? These are pretty accusatory faxes. Why not come and talk to Ed in person?"

"Well, no, I don't have the armament for that. I don't want to do that."

Typical, very typical. Ed, I just thought I'd pass that along to ya. That occurred during the break. Your critics are very vocal and actually vicious a lot of times but, including James Randi ... so far... they don't want to come on the air and talk to you, Ed.

Dames: We're going to end run the James Randi's and main stream science. The way we are doing that is we are putting fire in the hands of everybody who wants it. I mentioned on an earlier show that we were in development on a training program, a tape training program, for years.

Bell: That's right. That's right. That's another... ..Here we go again, let me stop you. You are doing something that I'm amazed at. I know that your training sessions have been full and are full through 1998 or something... .

Dames: We're not training past September of '97 and those slots are filled, mostly with doctors and physicians.

Bell: Yep. So you put together video tapes that are going to allow people to learn to remote view on their own for a far more reasonable price... far more reasonable... and now people are coming and saying... before they couldn't say anything... now they are saying 'AHA'... now Ed Dames is on the money thing... he wants to make a lot of money... and so, here come the video tapes. What was your motivation in releasing the video tapes?

Dames: Retirement. Retirement so I do not have to teach this anymore. We were inundated when... PSI TECH was a very low profile company until we did the Art Bell Show. When people found out we had a training course, we had thousands of people haranguing us for this training. They did not know that we had training courses, tape versions, home study courses in development and we had been working on those for years. One person and a small company that is capacity constrained... really... how can we teach all of these people something that I would have given anything to learn and was lucky enough to do that... to be employed in that capacity. So these tapes, they do two things. They prove to people that this is real because the only way that people, like Charlie in Houston, are going to believe this is when they do it themselves. No amount of amazing Randi successes or those kind of successes or finding Philip Taylor Kramer's body is going to convince the Charles in Houston that this is right. There will always be a hitch, there will always be something.

Bell: Sure. Sure.

Dames: By putting this in people's hands, they will be able to do this themselves and be able to do things like penetrate facilities in AREA 51 and then share their results on the internet within 45 minutes to 2 hours after they work. You are talking about a world without secrets.

Bell: Ya, that is what we're talking about and again, getting to specifics, would you please give the audience the results of the work that you did on TWA800.

Dames: Well, that work is posted on our website and actually, in summary, in two letters that went to the Vice Chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board. In essence, we very quickly determined... as a team... that a piece of the aircraft failed. It was a mechanical failure. A very rare failure indeed, in fact, about as rare as the crankshaft in your automobile breaking. We are talking about a 747 series 100 that was built in 1971 so it was a rather old aircraft. The part that failed was in System 3... and that is the right inboard engine... and up above the engine, in the pylon... is a pump... a hydraulic pump, not a fuel pump. It is that pump shaft that broke and fractured and caused an ensuing chain of events. We laid that out on our website, point by point. The shaft fractured the pump housing. The shrapnel from that event severed a fuel line and a fuel air mist was created... which exploded. That explosion ignited the right wing tank, severing the right wing from the aircraft. The fireball migrated... the explosion... the conflagration actually migrated to the almost empty center tank and then the plane was entirely consumed. There were two very large explosions... one was the right wing tank and the second was the main tank. That is the order of events and, you know, that is not that difficult for our team to do. Had the plane actually been subject to a bombing, which was the case with the Lockerbie Pan Am Flight, you remember that?

Bell: Of course.

Dames: Our military team determined that two individuals were responsible for placing the bomb on board the aircraft. That was a very difficult operation because we had to track down, using in those days it was called coordinate remote viewing... now in it's evolved from PSI TECH's Technical Remote Viewing is far faster and more efficient... we had to track down the... in this case... the terrorists and walk the FBI into their location. That was a lot of work.

Bell: When did you first make public the results of the TWA investigation?

Dames: I think about October 15th sticks in my mind, I would have to go to the website to check.

Bell: OK.

Dames: But, as you know, they are still putting Humpty Dumpty back together again in a warehouse and we think that they'll do that. The NTSB has requested an additional 17 million from Congress, which I think they got, and they're going to put the aircraft back together again and I'm sure the results will reflect our own results.

Bell: So, you believe there will be some sort of relatively definitive answer from the NTSB about what actually did occur?

Dames: Yes, I do, because the NTSB is not a political animal like say the FBI or NASA or agencies like that. The NTSB has one job to do and that is to make sure that whatever broke on that aircraft, if it indeed broke, does not happen again on other aircraft.

Bell: Alright. Also on the videotape that I watched, you related a story of PSI TECH work on a medical case, specifically a spinal problem. Can you tell us about that?

Dames: One of our graduates, a neurosurgeon, asked me personally to remote view an intractable case that he had.

Bell: He couldn't figure it out in other words.

Dames: He couldn't figure it out. He thought that he had it but he didn't. I came up with a conclusion that there was a leak of spinal fluid lower in the back and, he thought that that was probably not correct, that isn't what he thought the problem was. The next morning, the individual who had the problem was under the knife in the emergency room and it was the specific problem that I had objectified using Technical Remote Viewing the day before. So, you can see how fast and how powerful these tools are and that was one person, albeit a professional... myself, working one remote viewing session. When you have a team of professional viewers or experienced graduate students, you can imagine what we can do.

Bell: I can imagine what you can do and I want to ask you this and I don't want a blurted out answer. Ed, I'm telling you, I don't want a blurted out answer. We know that somebody... we know that Courtney Brown rendered up to myself and Whitley Streiber a photograph that was fraudulent. I am not here saying, so I'm clear, that Courtney Brown committed a fraud. I am saying that he gave us a photograph that, obviously, has been shown to be a fraud. I asked you, during the last show we did, if it would be possible to remote view who committed that fraud. Do not tell me over the air who that is, there are legal problems with that but do tell... do you know?

Dames: No, I don't, Art. In fact, we are working, as you know, some serious survival issues.

Bell: I know.

Dames: Those plus, what we did volunteer to do was the Kramer case.

Bell: That's right and you said this would be somewhere down line and that is exactly correct, I recall.

Dames: And we haven't actually slipped this in to see who it is. I think it would be fun but there's a lot of things that are fun and we'll try our best to get that one in.

Bell: I can understand the priority is not so high as the rather immediate fate of the world, by quite a long shot. Alright, this is out of left field, Ed, and it's just a suggestion. I don't know if it is even worth doing but over the last couple of weeks we have been inundated with news about cloning... not in vitro fertilization but cloning... most recently, of monkeys. Now, that's very close to human beings, less than 1 percentage point difference in DNA, so it is quite clear to a lot of people that the cloning of human beings has either already been done or immediately on the horizon. It would be fun, using your words, to know where cloning is going to go... if anywhere at all. Is that an interesting target?

Dames: I think this falls under the rubric of a topical search... where we actually go in with a very general search term... look into the collective unconscious... and see what the near term, mid term and far term holds in terms of those kinds of ideas... I'm not saying technologies, ideas. It would be fun but I don't think we're going to have a chance to do much cloning at all. I will tell you, in a little while, where genetic engineering and biotechnology can best be applied. By the way, that medical session is on our website in case anyone is interested.

Bell: So they can read about that as well.

Dames: Yes.

Bell: Alright.

Dames: Before we go any further, for people who are interested in the home study course that we offer, can I give them... .

Bell: Well, let's tell them exactly what it is. First of all, how many videotapes are involved?

Dames: There is an introductory tape, one tape, which proves to people that they can do this and that it works and the actual beginning... the intermediate home study course which is a series of 4 tapes.

Bell: Alright, let's begin with the first tape. This tape will show you... prove to you that it works and, from that, you can decide if you want to proceed and get the other tapes...is that correct?

Dames: That's correct.

Bell: How much is that tape... the first one?

Dames: The beginning tape is $49.95. We kept the prices as low as possible to make it as available as possible. The home study course is $249.95 but our distributors are marketing both packages for $249.95, I believe, for the next couple of weeks and after that...

Bell: In other words, you can get it all together.

Dames: Yes.

Bell: Alright, those four tapes... if you scrupulously follow the instructions on those four tapes, can people then do what you do?

Dames: No, they can't do everything that my company does. For instance, they could not locate, easily, Kramer's remains or his corpse but they could quickly ascertain that he was not alive.

Bell: So, in other words, this is an intermediate level course... these four tapes.

Dames: That's correct. It is designed to allow someone, in the privacy of their home, to master these techniques and to recreate a lot of different things. For instance, it would be most appropriate for a lot of UFO aficionados to use these techniques to look inside of facilities... if you get the gist.

Bell: Sure.

Dames: Or just to have some fun. For instance, if they've never been inside of the oval office of the White House, to use that as a target reference and to describe it and sketch it using these techniques that we teach you how to do.

Bell: OK.

Dames: Formerly top secret, I might add.

Bell: So, Ed, if you make enough money from these tapes to retire and to go to a safe spot... which by the way I think is the one you won't name... we'll talk about that here in a bit... that is the unabashed truthful goal of what you're doing... in other words...

Dames: The goal is... I can retire now... but we can't really do it responsibly until we're sure that everything that we know is in the hands of everyone out there. Then we expect them to share results on the Internet, very quickly, and I think this will spread like wildfire. Even I don't know what the next step in the evolution of this very powerful consciousness tool is but I think that young people will take this faster and farther than I could even have imagined and they don't have a lot of time.

Bell: Ya, I understand. What do you anticipate the results will be... or can it not be anticipated... of so many people suddenly being able to do what you're able to do? Is there any consequence to that, Ed?

Dames: Again, I think it's quite mind boggling... even for someone like myself who is used to mind boggled things. My guess is that... what we've seen on the web is that young people really learn very fast and what we will probably see is... let's say there is an event somewhere worldwide or an enigma... people who are trained in the home study course and learned these techniques will quickly share the results of their remote viewing sessions... which take about 45 minutes to do... and. in a matter of hours, very accurate information on what appeared to be a mystery earlier, will be on the net. People will be cross checking each others work very rapidly so there won't be any mysteries or secrets anymore. There world will be very different.

Bell: Alright, let's say a person now wants to order the $49.95 introduction to determine whether they want to go further or they just want to go for the $249.95 whole ball of wax intermediate course... what number do they call?

Dames: 1-800-556-0391.

Bell: That's 1-800-556-0391. Now, you're not adverse to the money you're going to be making from this, right?

Dames: It's what a corporation is all about and, once we market advanced modules then... our internet site... I'll be on the internet site providing technical support to the advanced modules... scientists, engineers, people who use these in their actual disciplines... particularly in the university atmosphere. Of course a business is not adverse to that and we spent 13 years developing them so...

Bell: Ya, I just wanted to lay this out because your traditional course, for people to come to PSI TECH and go through the course with you, would have cost... in the past... how much?

Dames: The tuition is $4500.00.

Bell: $4500 bucks. Alright, and that is not far off course from other remote viewing facilities around the country. They're all very expensive from the average person's point of view.

Dames: Well, they followed PSI TECH's lead. I founded the company in '89 and they kind of... we set the standard for tuition's but you're not really going to learn how to be a technical remote viewer. What we teach is for someone to do it on their own and these other courses turn it into an experience or you have to go back and work with one of their facilitators in order to produce something. Our courses are designed to have individuals learn this and do it successfully on their own... including James Randi if he would like to learn.

Bell: (Laughter) I wouldn't hold your breath on that one. Alright, and by the way we will contact Randi and see if he wants to come on the air. I'll make a second plea. First time around he didn't want to come on the air with and talk with you at all. We will break here and come back after the top of the hour. My guest is PSI TECH's Major Ed Dames.

Bell: In one more moment, back to Ed Dames, and we are going to ask some specific questions about time lines.

commercials

Bell: Alright, back now to Major Ed Dames, PSI TECH's Ed Dames, and as we go back... let me tell you if you're just joining us... in the first hour we had, together, Kathy Kramer and Major Ed Dames. He gave as many details as he could, publicly, about what he sees as the murder of Philip Taylor Kramer. That information was not given brutally on the air. We had spoken to Kathy Kramer, of course, prior to going on the air and it was her wish to be on the air. I wanted you to know that. I personally informed her of the initial information from Ed Dames a good week prior to the broadcast. Obviously, we're not going to bring someone on the air and level that kind of brutal information publicly on them so she already knew most of the serious news... picked up some more of the specifics. It will now continue with the Ventura police and sheriff and Ed Dames and Kathy Kramer, in private. You will hear about the results when they occur.

In the second hour, we have been talking specifically about the plant pathogen that is due to come to a continent here on earth... near you... soon. There is some good news... all hope is not lost... we're going to get to good news. Ed has got some good news for us but, we have so many requests for specific timelines. Let me read this: "Art, if I was making an investment, I would want to know how the product works now... not in 1998. Please push Ed to commit to a current timeline." I think that's a little unfair. 1998 is next year, that's pretty current stuff. "Otherwise", he goes on, "he may just be a con man who makes his money for one or two years and then disappears." Actually, that is what Ed is doing... unabashedly... there's nothing wrong. He's got a company... it's called PSI TECH... it's a private company... it's not .org... in other words, it's not a tax free organization. Ed has a company... years and years and years... retired from the military and he now has a company. It is a regular company, like any other, that makes money. He is providing video tapes that will teach you how to remote view... at an intermediate... and then eventually at a higher level... and we will talk about that as well and he charges for those video tapes. There is no question about it and there is no shame in it. Actually, it is several thousands of dollars less than the courses that he had jam packed full so, it you want to look at motivations... yes, he's a company... yes, he's making money... yes, in a year or two, he plans to more or less disappear... for a very good reason... we are discussing that reason this morning.

So, let's begin by talking a little bit about timelines, Ed, and how it is you determine when something is going to happen; in remote viewing, how do you do that?

Dames: Well, Art, we first target the specific event or class of event that we're looking at. Let's use the next major LA earthquake as an example.

Bell: Alright.

Dames: So, we're setting up a problem and the problem deals with Los Angeles as a geographical location and the problem set is further modified with the idea of a geophysical event; in this case an earthquake, not a storm or high winds or hail. Now, there are earthquakes happening all the time, as you know, microquakes occur several thousand times a day.

Bell: Sure.

Dames: So we have to qualify the search term. Our intent must be, what do we mean by major. In major we mean loss of life and/or destruction of property... heavy destruction of property. Once we qualify those search terms, we write these search terms down on a folder... we simply write the word down... and that's the same thing you would do if you were searching a database... you would go from the general to the specific.

Bell: Actually, if you go to the internet and say go to Yahoo, or one of the other big search engines, and enter a word... it will give you a listing of responses in confidence levels... in other words, 98% says this is your response and then on down in probability from there... so kinda like that.

Dames: In a similar fashion and remember, the internet was started by... in the old days when I was there... it was a Department of Defense tool so the way that it is set up now very much mirrors it's original structure. You search from the general to the specific.

Bell: Right.

Dames: We are talking LA modified by the idea of a major earthquake. When we begin our remote viewing protocols, the same way that anybody who learns the home study techniques can do, they immediately find themselves in a large built up area sketching and describing... in very disciplined and structured techniques... a city. Now we know that that city is Los Angeles because that's part of the search terms... directly attributable... and the more people work remote viewing, the more confidence they'll have in this amazing ability for unconscious to go right to what conscious intent dictates. Now they are describing activity in the city and, after about 45 minutes or so, they know they are dealing with what appears to be rush hour times 10. They are describing the epicenter of the earthquake because that is how unconscious perceives this. The earthquake begins at an epicenter so the remote viewer is actually sketching the San Gabriel Mountains as well as Los Angeles... there must be context for meaning. Your mind must produce data about the earthquake's epicenter as well as Los Angeles because that is what all the targeting data is.

Bell: Sure.

Dames: OK, so, we can...in higher stages... determine where we're at... in a ball park sense... in time. We can go out and say... ok, we are about... speaking in an analog sense... this is about 5 months past my next birthday or 5 months past Christmas... anything that has emotional meaning. We can actually find it and locate it by using an analog sense of time.

Bell: Kind of emotional landmarks.

Dames: We bracket the target using landmarks. Now landmarks don't have to be emotional just to us. I could use Art Bell's birthday, even though I don't know when your birthday is, it's a landmark because it has emotional meaning somewhere in the collective and it's a part of the collective.

Bell: So, in other words, the audience needs to understand... there is not some magic date that suddenly drifts in front of your eyes... that's not the way it's done.

Dames: Now psychics can, natural psychics, will sometimes have that occur to them but we are not psychics... we are remote viewers. Now we get into how we would pinpoint a specific day and hour. We've got to use a physical reference point because the abstract ideas have no tangible value and we don't know where we are in time without referencing to something tangible. For instance, the idea of calendrical time... March 8, 1997... has no meaning in the collective unconscious so we've got to look at physical reference points. The best way to do that is to use an orrery...an orrery is an ancient... it began as a medieval astrolabe. You remember those brass devices that were wind clockworks that showed, in a Copernican sense, the position of the heavenly bodies?

Bell: Yes.

Dames: Well, there are modern day components... software... that show the positions of the heavenly bodies, in 2 dimensions, on your computer screen. What we do as remote viewers, once we lock onto an event and we are not sure where we are in time... we go into a higher stage and an advanced tool... and we sketch the relative positions of planets vis a vis our star the sun.

Bell: Fascinating.

Dames: Then, we go further. We sketch, on that particular time when that event is occurring, the phase of the moon and it's position in the sky and so on. By using physical reference points like that we can extrapolate... we can interpolate... the hour and the day.

Bell: So you really can refine it. What a fascinating way to do so. Alright, since we're on the subject of LA... and you're being heard in LA... people there are concerned... not overwrought with... but concerned about the possibility of an earthquake. Do you know anything specific?

Dames: We just had... yes, yes, we know some specific things. The next quake will not be as large as the last big one. That's good news. Again, the epicenter, the San Gabriel Mountains... lots of damage in Malibu... and we do have a ball park time on the date but I think I'll wait on that one or I think I'd rather teach our students how to do that on the website.

Bell: Alright, this may lead us in a direction that I think you want to go in. Let me read this to you, "Dear Art, I work for the largest grower, shipper, of fresh vegetables... I believe... in the world... Dole vegetables. Will Mr. Dames and his company be providing companies like mine on how we can make this impending situation any better? It seems that, with the resources that companies such as Dole have, we could help remedy or mitigate the pathogen problems somewhat." That is from Jan in Salinas, California. It's a good question. All is not doom and gloom. A lot of people are going to die... you said 80%... you said 80 to 85%... do you stand by that?

Dames: In the lesser developed countries, the African continent particularly, yes.

Bell: What about this fax. "Is there a way that we can mitigate death here? Selfishly, let us ask about the good old industrialized US of A."

Dames: The death in the lesser developed countries will be primarily microbial and disease. It won't be the plant pathogen directly, it will be disease. To get back to the subject at hand, we finally got some extremely valuable... very good news... vis a vis the food problem. As I have mentioned so often, food is going to become an extremely serious problem. When our plants die, and we have no plants to feed first our cattle and then ourselves, there's no food. Having said that, many of our technical remote viewer professionals... looking in to the future... were seeing survivors on very barren wastelands... all the crops virtually gone... and we were wondering, what are these people eating? We know there are survivors, there are people moving around on the surface. What are they eating? We were perceiving vertically oriented tanks... vats... enclosed... and in those tanks was a greenish brown substance... mostly green. We did not know what the substance was but we knew that people were eating it. We now know exactly what the substance is.

Bell: What is it?

Dames: It's Chlorella, a green algae. Now, some of your listeners may be familiar...

Bell: I am not. Chlorella, a green algae.

Dames: Chlorella is a species of green algae and let me tell you that, before I go into the natural history of Chlorella and describe to you what it is, it will be the only thing to eat in the 'out years'. It will first become a food supplement. Right now it is a health food supplement and in the 'out years' it will become the staple and the only thing that we can eat because it will be the only thing that survives on the surface of this planet or anywhere else.

Bell: Ed, can you tell me how long the 'out years' will last? You are describing what is going to begin in the summer of '98... which is only next year... the beginning of it... how many years of 'out' are we talking about before things begin to get better?

Dames: I don't know. We are running into this wall that I've mentioned before. Somewhere between 1999 and 2001 is this idea of this discontinuity... this event... that happens globally... worldwide... all at once. Something very mysterious happens to people and we're having a difficult time seeing around that, Art.

Bell: You have described this discontinuity as a spiritual event, I believe, have you not?

Dames: It's not just spiritual, there's physical concomitance, something is happening to the surface of the planet as well. It's spooky. I don't scare easily but this one spooks even me. We are still working on it. It's the last real mission that PSI TECH has, commercially.

Bell: Alright, can you define discontinuity for me, please?

Dames: I call it discontinuity because it's a form of... you say there's a quickening going on... I agree with you that that is an apropos term... but the discontinuity is a break in human evolution. It's a point where human evolution does something funny. The discontinuity is a mathematics and catastrophe theory term. It's a point where... all of a sudden... there is a break in the continuity of evolution for humans. The physical description of what that would feel like is somewhere between sleep and death. Something happens to human beings... they jump track. I don't know if all of us do. We can only put it in terms of biblical or supernatural terms but there are other things that happen that I don't want to go into now. This event is somewhere between 1999 and 2001. Everything changes immediately... globally... at once.

Bell: And you cannot see past that?

Dames: We can't see past it easily. We know that people are still around but what happens changes the way we see ourselves. Therefore, as a remote viewer, looking at me through my own eyes is one thing but trying to look at me... if I'm around... with eyes that are different after this event... is another.

Bell: In other words, it is so different, whatever the hell it is, that there is no good frame of reference for you.

Dames: We have to discover the frame of reference, first. The band width, if you will. Perhaps there is a compression of time or a dilation of time. That may be the problem... I suspect that it is.

Bell: Wait, a dilation of time?

Dames: That time either speeds up or slows down and, if it does, we don't have... in our experiential data base... in our thesaurus... this kind of an experience... so we can't... as technical remote viewers... cope with the data. We are not able to put it into useful terms, in terms of words and sketches. What are you seeing? Well, how do you translate something that you have never experienced before... directly or indirectly... into words and sketches?

Bell: Right. You can't.

Dames: That is why we are running into this problem.

Bell: How hard are you working on it?

Dames: Well, not as much as... we'll be working much harder very fast because we solved this survival... this food problem. We've identified the food source and we're very happy about that. Now, after we promulgate that information and give it to whoever wants it... for free, by the way. There is no newsletter that you have to buy. We're posting it on our website and we provide it to anyone that wants it.

Bell: I'm sorry, what's the name of that algae again?

Dames: It is a green algae. I'll be talking a lot about it and this particular one is called Chlorella.

Bell: Chlorella.

Dames: It's very important.

Bell: I take it that Chlorella does not require direct sunlight to grow... the nature of an algae, is that right?

Dames: It does require direct sunlight.

Bell: It does.

Dames: And mineralized water and it's off and running.

Bell: So, under the conditions that you foresee, and that would be a far more depleted ozone layer and a lot of other weather problems and so forth and so on, Chlorella would grow.

Dames: It will flourish... Chlorella ill flourish. We will not be able to spend a lot of time on the surface while the ozone problems are so severe because 15 minutes in that kind of sunlight... you're going to damage your skin.

Bell: Alright, Ed, hold it right there. Yikes, one of my new favorite words.

[break]

Bell: Alright, Ed, would it be appropriate that we begin putting together facilities to grow Chlorella, now?

Dames: There are commercial companies that grow it now and they do a good job of it. I think that we just need to familiarize ourselves with it more and we need to develop technologies that make it available to... and spread it out more because distribution... logistically... is going to be very difficult when the economy breaks down. I've already mentioned... I have mentioned in the past... that it's probably not a good idea to be in the cities.

Bell: Yes, and you... this brings up another topic... you're leaving... .you're leaving. I mean you've told people, you're up front about it, you're leaving.

Dames: I'm leaving in '98.

Bell: That's right, alright, in '98. In the videotape, standing in front of the rabid MUFON folks, they pressed you for two safe locations... safe areas... and so I will press you for those. Actually, they pressed you for three. What are the two safe areas that you see, Ed?

Dames: Well, I don't know how many safe areas there are but there is consistent data that... by that I mean that many remote viewer's data lead to certain specific places. One of them is in British Columbia... right across the US... what is presently the US border... and to the western part of British Columbia.

Bell: Vancouver area.

Dames: To the west, I'm sorry, to the east more... probably another 100 miles.

Bell: A little to the east of Vancouver, alright.

Dames: Ya, right in that area there. Another... a lot of Europeans end up describing the area around Liechtenstein and Switzerland.

Bell: Both of these are cold areas and I presume that bears somewhat on it?

Dames: I think that... my guess... my hunch before was that cold areas, for reasons that we talked about... water... fresh water... were important. Why specifically the collective unconscious points viewers to these areas... and areas like these... I don't know yet but I know that these are sanctuaries.

Bell: Alright.

Dames: And they're not in large cities.

Bell: There is a third sanctuary but you will not make that public... will you?

Dames: No, I won't. It's in the Polynesian-Pacific area.

Bell: I had a feeling that's where it was... somewhere out there... and I have a feeling that's where you're going.

Dames: I'm heading that direction.

Bell: Uh huh. You've got your cards, as far as I can see, out on the table and you've been awfully specific tonight.

Dames: I do, before the night is over, I really do want to inform people about this food.

Bell: Oh, yes. By the way, Ed, I'm a hamburger and a steak and potato kind of guy.

Dames: Right now.

Bell: Ya, right now.

Dames: You're probably gonna want to die, Art.

Bell: Ya...that's right, Ed. What is this... have you taste tested this Chlorella?

Dames: Yes, I've taste tested it and I don't know how long we can live on this. It is going to need some Tabasco sauce or something. It's a wonderful thing. It's extremely healthy and it has all the essential amino acids that we require for life. You can live on the stuff, and I'll say more about it, but bland is an understatement.

Bell: Bland is an understatement.

Dames: I mean it's like Solyent Green without the bad components.

Bell: I understand. Yuk! There is not way to avoid what's coming, is there?

Dames: There is not.

Bell: A very clear statement. Somebody writes and wants to know... you will frequently... actually, for a long time you didn't comment on other remote viewers... the Courtney Brown situation forced it. There is one other remote viewer somebody would like you comment on and that's David Morehouse.

Dames: David Morehouse was with the remote viewing unit for a year, a little over a year. He was taught through the upper intermediate stages of, what was then called, coordinate remote viewing. Dave was discharged from the Army for less than honorable conditions and some of your listeners, who care to familiarize themselves with Dave's case, know that he wrote a book "Psychic Warrior". Dave has been in trouble both in the military and has been accused of prevarication in a lot of his public works. I think the best assessment that a reader or someone who cared to inquire about David Morehouse could make would be simply to go out and listen to what...see what he's done and see what he said... and to judge him themselves... I'm not going to do that.

Bell: Alright, Buchanan, Courtney Brown, others... remote viewers are all at each others throats... how come?

Dames: Well, there is a lot of egos involved here: vanity, egos, megalomania. It is the same as any other tightly controlled discipline. Plus you have disinformation and damage control. When PSI TECH was founded, and I did work for the United Nations on Saddam Hussein... locating Saddam Hussein's biological warfare stockpiles... and the National Security Council... we broke the news of the existence of this kind of technology. People thought that I would go directly to jail... not pass go... and when they saw that I did not... they began to squeak. Many of the people that were involved in the unit... were only... they were either involved in an administrative capacity or they were merely remote viewers. They did not know how to analyze there own work nor did they know how to engineer a problem to be successfully executed. I was both their training officer... I trained them... and I was the operations officer for the unit... so I had both skills. Again, we are dealing with lots of problems.

Bell: Actually, Ed, it's not at all unlike MUFON itself or many other organizations. I have been dealing with ufologists for years and they are all at each others throats constantly, accusing each other of being CIA agents and disinformation agents and...

Dames: A lot of internecine warfare.

Bell: That's right.

Dames: I would really rather just lay it to rest by saying that people can talk about history... they can write about history... but in terms of the present and the future... delivering the goods... only PSI TECH can do that. We're the only ones with the expertise. No one else, as you can see or any of your listeners, is willing to go on-line and stick their neck and their corporation on-line and say, 'this is how Philip Taylor Kramer died or this is how TWA800 broke'... on and on and on. We do that because the confidence factors are extremely high, in fact, they're 100%.

Bell: Can you tell me the date when you're gonna shut the doors... close PSI TECH and head west?

Dames: Well, it will be '98. We will no longer be training in Beverly Hills office in '97. We will pack up and move in '98 but we will be on the world wide web training young people. I am particularly interested in young people.

Bell: So, wherever you are, you'll be on the web.

Dames: I'll be on the web and probably on this phone talking to you as long as AM waves propagate.

Bell: Alright, this may be too political but it is an obvious questions. If the world is going to face the kind of food shortages that you're talking about... and soon... then there are considerations with regard to Red China, what used to be the Soviet Union, all the remaining nuclear weapons. One good reason to have a big war, Ed, has always been... other than religion... food and what will happen... geopolitically... do you think... once this catastrophe begins to unfold?

Dames: Keep your head down. I think... this is not based upon remote viewing but based upon my work in the intelligence field... I think you're going to see a terrorist situation with certain portions of rocket forces in certain foreign countries who command the keys and the locks for nuclear weapons and have the weapons themselves. Why shouldn't I... if I were a Ukrainian commander and my family was hungry... .and my troops were hungry... and I had access to nuclear weapons... I think what I would do is I would point one of the weapons at the People's Republic of China and I would demand that the United States deliver up a certain quantity of gold and food to me or I would launch the weapons at China. Yep, I think that's what I'd do if I were pressed to the wall.

Bell: I can't say that I would disagree with that.

Dames: So watch for things that grave, in the future, that will eclipse a lot of our local problems... very rapidly.

Bell: So, things are going to get bad and they're going to get bad quickly.

Dames: Geopolitically as well as ecologically.

Bell: Are there any, you talked about Los Angeles, are there any geophysical events that you would care to attach or can attach a specific timeline to?

Dames: Not specific. I'll tell you, we're gonna have another quake here in around 14 or 18 months and, if you really are interested in those kinds of things, we'll pin it down to day and hour but so what: buildings gonna shake... the earth is gonna quake... and we may lose a few people here and there but it won't be as big as the last one. I know that timelines are important to some people and that would be a good proof of principle, I think, to pin down the next quake and I think we'll do that.

Bell: Alright. A little bit of background, the cylindrical object that had been attached to or with Hale-Bopp... which has now left Hale-Bopp and you believe is on the way toward earth or maybe even close now... why Hale-Bopp and who is behind it? What do you know about that?

Dames: The agencies that are behind that particular special delivery package are not... don't appear to be necessarily human... or humanoid. That's all I want to say about that because it just gets too...

Bell: Strange?

Dames: Far beyond strange. I 'm not sure about the rest of the agenda. Comets are harbingers, historically, harbingers of things to come and change and this is a big comet so big change.

Bell: Yes.

Dames: All of those kinds of things, it reminds me, in certain ways, of tactical situations. In a night attack, a way to infiltrate special forces into a battlefield, is to fly them above a bomb drop and have the parachutists exit the aircraft while the bombs are in front of them. The bombs hit the ground... the paratroopers land and they can virtually pack up and leave and people are so shook up they can't see and their heads are still rattling and, by the time they can see, the paratroopers have infiltrated into the woodwork. This reminds me of this thing, hitching a ride on the back or on the comet itself. There are certain analogies there that are similar to that tactical situation.

Bell: Ed... .

Dames: Yes?

Bell: I'm sorry, I'm trying to think of exactly... how to phrase this.

Dames: Let me tell you about the food.

Bell: Well, we can certainly get to that but again, this object that is quickly headed our way, you I believe referred... and I'm trying to be careful here... I think you referred to us once as a virus or a cancer...

Dames: And this is the antidote.

Bell: ... and that this is the antidote or the penicillin for Mother Earth.

Dames: Yes, we're very anthropocentric... we're very human oriented... thinking that we're on the top of the food chain and that we can destroy the very ground that we stand on... that gives us life. This is an antidote for earth. That is our perspective, in house, and an antibiotic... anti bio... and it's going to have a very great curative effect. It's going to take away the food supply for the disease.

Bell: And because of this barrier that you see, out not very far before... right around 2000... you simply can't tell us how we're going to fare. You can tell us in the short term how we can live...

Dames: And survive.

Bell: ... and survive but you can't tell us...can you... long term... about our children's survival?

Dames: I'll say one thing, Art, and that is that our children and their children will be here with another race and they will rebuild the planet... together. There will be another race that's here after this specific event that I'm talking about... this discontinuity... and together... ala Alien Nation... they will rebuild the planet.

Bell: I wonder if a future generation of earth dwellers will thank whoever is sending this little package our way or curse them and think of them now as we do the Nazi's with their death camps? How will history, do you suppose, view what is going to occur, Ed?

Dames: Well, it's an interesting question from another perspective because time travel is very real in the future and so many of the devices... objects... some manned... some unmanned... that we see in our skies and have for a couple of decades...

Bell: UFOs.

Dames: ... are actually ourselves... some of our future selves... coming back to take a look. So, you know, you can add that to the complexity of the situation. How they actually will view us... or do view us now... is problematic.

Bell: Well, then that's got to be out past what you're calling the 'out years' which would indicate that there is some form of survival and some form of high Tech survival if they are capable of time travel. You are saying that a lot of the UFOs that we see are from our future and they are our descendants.

Dames: That's correct. Witness 'Art's Parts'.

Bell: Ya, 'Art's Parts'. Alright, Ed, what I'd like to do is take about an hour... if you're willing... and I think we've covered an awful lot of territory... and allow the audience to begin asking you some questions. Would you be up for that?

Dames: I'd be glad to as long as, before your show is finished, I can have about 10 minutes to really... specifically... tell your listeners exactly what survival food I am talking about.

Bell: Would you like it at the beginning of this next hour or the end of the session? Your choice.

Dames: We can do it at the end.

Bell: Alright, stand by, Ed and we'll get back to you.

[break] Art Bell's bumper music is "What A Wonderful World" by Louis "Satchmo" Armstrong. "I see skies of blue and clouds of white, The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night, And I think to myself, what a wonderful world. The colors of the rainbow so pretty in the sky, Are also on the faces of the people passing by, I see friends shaking hands saying 'how do you do?" They're really saying, "I love you."

Bell: Somehow, when Ed is here, this one always seems right on the money... if you know what I mean.

music continues:

I hear babies cry, I watch them grow, They'll learn much more than I'll ever know, And I think to myself, what a wonderful world, Yes, I think to myself, what a wonderful world."

Bell: It just kinda works, huh? Remember, if you want a copy of this program, it's gonna turn out to be a 4 hour program. You can call 1-800- 917-4278.

commercials

Bell: Back now to Major Ed Dames. Major Dames...

Dames: Still here, Art.

Bell: Still there... good. Here they come. First time caller line you are on the air with Major Ed Dames. Good morning.

Caller: Good morning. Mr. Dames, I have a couple of questions for ya.

Dames: Shoot.

Caller: First of all, I was wondering, are you familiar with Duncan Cameron of the Montauk Experiment?

Dames: I am familiar with rumors and conspiracies surrounding the word Montauk and the base.

Caller: OK, well supposedly... I have been to a couple of his seminars... and he claims to be one of the remote viewers that was used out there. He states that the space time continuum disruption, that occurred in '43 and '83 at the Philadelphia Experiment, is what allowed a gateway for E Ts to be able to come to earth.

Bell: Alright, anything to that or is that part of the rumor conspiracy stuff, Ed?

Dames: Ho hum. (laugher) What can I say? How can I comment on something like that?

Bell: Have you ever looked at the Philadelphia Experiment?

Dames: I think I have talked about that particular experiment on your show before. I mentioned... wasn't that covered earlier... in an earlier show? It was an experiment in radar invisibility and it did not open a space time continuum or close one. What it did was set a precedent for burning out nervous systems in human beings... short of a lightning stroke. When the people walked off... when the sailors and other civilians walked off that ship... they were the walking dead. They were essentially burned out nervous systems and, before they died, they did not know what time it was... what day it was... or where they were... and that led their families to suspect all kinds of things. All kinds of conspiracies grew as a result of that, particularly, surrounding an idea that these people did not know what day it was and what time it was.

Bell: Alright. Wild card line you are on the air with Major Ed Dames. Hi.

Caller: Hi. I'm calling from Sedona, Arizona.

Bell: Oh, magical Sedona.

Caller: I've got a question for Ed and then I've got a statement. Maybe he can clarify his timelines, to me, seem to be disjointed.

Bell: In what sense?

Caller: Well, on another show he said that about 80% of us were going to be wiped out because of weather changes and 300 mile an hour winds; now, it is something from Hale-Bopp.

Bell: Uh huh.

Caller: Also, on another show, he said that the global economic crash was going to be by the end of 1997 and now he says summer of '98. Also, if 80% of us are going to be wiped out, what is the point of him being on the internet to teach all these young people remote viewing?

Bell: Alright, pause now for your answer. Ed, to the degree that she suggested... you first talked about the winds... the jet stream coming down on deck... a lot of people dead. You also talked about babies dying. These were in early shows, some time ago, and the plant pathogen was... as of your last appearance on this program... is there a problem there or...

Dames: No, just re-listen to the tape. It is kind of mixing and matching. I guess I have been on a little too much. There is a lot of mixing and matching there, also. I would like to say one thing with regard to this and that is that... yes, I will be on the internet in '98 because all bets are off in mid '98... especially at the end of '98. We just don't know what's going to happen and we don't have any real timelines after the end of '98.

Bell: PSI TECH has made a couple of mistakes, again referring back to the tape. There is one specific one, that you admitted to, and then one that you did not admit to. The one you admitted to occurred during the Gulf War and, I believe, that you suggested you had remotely viewed what you thought was a nuclear detonation of some sort.

Dames: A tactical nuclear...

Bell: A tactical nuke, ya, which in fact, turned out to be a fuel air explosion.

Dames: That's correct.

Bell: Which, of course, is the... you don't want to say the next best thing to... but the closest thing to a nuclear detonation. I suppose it would look very much the same, with a big cloud and all that.

Dames: We didn't explore it any further. We automatically assumed... this is where analysis can really get you. Your remote viewing can be dead on... and it better be if you work for my company... but analysis can be faulty and, in this case, it was my mistake and I took responsibility for it to our clients. It was indeed a fuel air explosion, but that was many years ago, and we have installed all kinds of cross checks now to make sure that doesn't happen again.

Bell: Alright. East of the Rockies you are on the air with Major Ed Dames. Hello

Caller: Hello, Major and Art. This is Rich out in Minnesota.

Bell: Yes Sir.

Caller: My question... I have something to add that might be connected to my question but... my question is when these people buy these courses will you do like an investigation... a background check... like maybe remote view them?

Bell: Oh, in other words, are you going to qualify the people you sell these things to, Ed, in any way at all?

Dames: Absolutely not. We are putting fire into the hands of people... what they do with it is up to them.

Caller: OK. I think I might have a clue for you. If you remote view Rich and take a look up on his mirror, thank you.

Bell: You're welcome. So, in other words, you're just turning this technology loose.

Dames: That's correct.

Bell: What people do with it is what people will do with it. There are good and bad people out there. Are you at all concerned about what may occur? I mean, that many people out there remote viewing... I think I asked you this earlier... but aren't there possible consequences to that?

Dames: I can only look at my own experience and witness what this has done to and for me and to and for others around me. I think that it is 95% positive, nominally, and 5% negative.

Bell: In your training, your remote viewing training there at PSI TECH... with regard to the number of people you have trained... have you turned people down?

Dames: Yes, we have. If we feel that someone is not balanced... mentally and emotionally balanced... then this kind of revelatory skill is going to send them over the edge.

Bell: So, then how do you reconcile the tapes?

Dames: It's a crap shoot. We're taking chances and I think that, in the end, it's going to be predominantly positive.

Bell: So, there is going to be some negative result to it but, on balance, it is better to let this out to the world... then not.

Dames: I think so. In fact, I think it would be less than altruistic not to. I would have given anything to learn this, at the time I learned it. I was lucky enough to learn it and I don't think I would want to deny... This kind of technology should not lie in the hands of a government or a group or a corporation. When you look at the cost of the tapes and what people are getting... that kind of skill... that's not a lot of money.

Bell: I know. I know. As a matter of fact, just from the financial end of it for a second, what kind of a reaction has there been from the other remote viewers who give training courses for thousands of dollars... which has been the standard previous to your release of these tapes... what kind of reaction has there been? Probably not very good, huh?

Dames: The jigs up, for them. It will put them out of business... completely out of business... because these are far superior techniques to what they are teaching. They don't have effective techniques and these... the intermediate course alone... not to mention the advanced courses that are coming... are enough to put these people out of business. They'll want to have these tapes to learn it themselves because they don't have that level of expertise.

Bell: So PSI TECH is becoming the Wall Mart of remote viewing.

Dames: We're becoming the Lingua Franca and the Wall Mart and the standard for remote viewing.

Bell: West of the Rockies you are on the air with Major Ed Dames. Hello.

Caller: Boy oh Boy, am I on Art Bell?

Bell: Yep.

Caller: It's been a while. Hey Art, you got me through some long college nights. I am just about to graduate and I want to thank you for that. Am I on with Mr. Ed Lame?

Bell: Look, I said earlier, caller you've got a choice. If you're gonna be rude I'm gonna blow you outa here like a bad dream.

Caller: Oh, I'm sorry, I have to check my notes... I'm sorry about that.

Bell: You better check your brain. Now, if you do it again, I'll blow you out of here. If you have a serious question... proceed.

Caller: He was talking about earthquakes. He said, cavalierly, something about a few people were gonna die. Now, I just tapped in with you Art, was he talking about the west coast?

Bell: Well, yes, Los Angeles.

Caller: Los Angeles, OK, I live out in Los Angeles and I don't take it lightly that a few people might die; that might be my mother... .that could be my father. I just feel that, if we have another Nostradamus in our midst, that we should know... hey... where's that third place that's he's gonna be hanging out at? I want to know all three of them so we can get to high ground so we're not gonna get hit by whatever...

Bell: Well, he gave you two of them and, if you're too lame to make it to one of them, that's your problem not his. With regard to the earthquake, he said that it would be of a lesser magnitude than the last, which means that it's not going to be particularly life threatening. Would that be right, Ed?

Dames: That's correct and anybody that learns the techniques can remote view where I'll be.

Bell: I just don't know what's the matter with people that they can't approach something controversial... with a hard question... without being rude. It's too bad... it's a sign of the 90's... and maybe it's a sign that we need some biological correction. Wild card line you are on the air with Major Ed Dames. Good morning.

Caller: Yes, calling from Anchorage.

Bell: Yes sir.

Caller: I think this Ed Dames is a phony.

Bell: Well, you're on the air with him. What do you think is phony about him?

Caller: Well, for example, that one gal asked a question and he said, 'well it's a mix and match thing'. She asked him some definite things but the type of things that you're coming up with...

Bell: Well, it was mix and match and sir, I followed that up by, indeed saying that Ed had first talked of the high winds and the babies dying and then of the plant pathogen but they all lead to about the same place. Now, if you see a problem, ask a specific question.

Caller: OK, now the things you're coming up with are New World insider information and you're a New Worlder and, working for the UN, you're an insider.

Bell: You mean me or Ed?

Caller: I'm talking about Ed... you, too.

Bell: Oh, me too... oh I see, OK. Ed, we're both working for the New World Order?

Dames: Let's see, the only work I did for the UN was to find Saddam Hussein's biological warfare stockpiles because the CIA...MI5 and 6... and the KGB... and the UN couldn't find them. So, now what does that make me?

Bell: I don't know. Are you CFR, Ed?

Dames: Are we both in that together, now? I've got to check my mail, I didn't know I was recruited.

Bell: East of the Rockies you're on the air with Major Ed Dames. Good morning.

Caller: Yes sir, this is Bill, I'm calling from Michigan.

Bell: Yes, Bill.

Caller: I've got two quick questions. I'm getting an echo here. I'm wondering, if you are in the act of remote viewing and your body is disturbed, can you be separated or lose your consciousness?

Dames: No. You are thinking of altered states.

Caller: OK.

Dames: Using Technical Remote Viewing, you are extremely alert. It is very much like working a math problem, think of that. It might be a little difficult for someone to get your attention... they might have to call your name twice... but they would have to do the same thing if you were working a math problem or engrossed in a book... very high attention.

Caller: OK, I've one other thing. I'm reading a book now called 'Meditative States in Tibetan Buddhism' and it talks about formless absorption and, if you can hone that discipline, would that help me in your discipline?

Dames: No, it wouldn't. It helps your body... it helps your health state. I was a student of Zen in my younger days. It helps you to become more healthy but it doesn't do anything to help your remote viewing, other than to give you a healthy body and that helps.

Bell: An interesting point, Drugs hurt, don't they?

Dames: They very much do.

Bell: Alright, west of the Rockies you're on the air with Major Ed Dames. Good morning.

Caller: Good morning, is this Art?

Bell: Yes, where are you, sir?

Caller: I'm in Arizona.

Bell: Arizona, do you have a question?

Caller: Ya, I do. I want to know... .something within 24 hours... within 24 hours... he could tell us that would happen.

Bell: No, I don't have to ask Ed that. I can tell you that and the answer is ' no'. It goes back to a basic understanding of what remote viewing is. People, Ed, come to you and they think you're a psychic.

Dames: Yes, it's the crystal ball thing.

Bell: Yes, the crystal ball.

Dames: We can do crystal ball stuff but we do it a different way.

Bell: Remote viewing is a long disciplined process that takes many people quite a bit of work and you don't just say 'tell me what's gonna happen tomorrow'. People are impatient and that is what they want but that is just not the way it works. Sorry to disappoint, caller.

Dames: Now, Art, you don't have to work as a team to get results.

Bell: Understood, but it's not as though you can...right now... go into a slightly altered state and say tomorrow the market will do the following, am I correct?

Dames: That's correct.

Bell: Wild card line you are on the air with Major Ed Dames. Hello.

Caller: Hi, I'm calling from LA. I just wanted to say that what Ed is saying is right on the money. I have been taking blue green algae, for quite a while now, as a food supplement. I really do believe it is a food and not a supplement. Your guest, Wayne Green, was on a while ago and he recommended some books and I did pick up one of them called 'Secrets of the Soil'. I was wondering, Dames, if you are familiar with... I believe his name is Colman... Daryl Colman?

Dames: No.

Caller: He is, I think, the one that discovered the resource of blue green algae located in Klamath Falls in Oregon.

Dames: Klamath Falls. It's not blue green algae that is going to be the staple. It's green algae and specifically, Chlorella. One particular species of it is better, it has more proteins, and I'll get into that later.

Caller: Ok, I didn't know that. Also, you were talking earlier about an event that is going to happen between 1999 and 2001. I take it that is before like the 'out years', is that correct?

Dames: I think it's midterm in terms of our vernacular.

Bell: In other words, in summer of '98 the severe problems will begin. Somewhere around the turn of the century, some sort of event occurs so, middle 'out years' is the way to put it I guess. Is that right, Ed?

Dames: Well, I guess you could call it that. I'm not going to quibble over the terminology. I'll just say that we have not yet pinpointed... but we will... this event that occurs between 1999 and 2001. It is a one time global event that changes everything and everybody all at once. That's all I can say about it right now because we don't understand it.

Bell: That'll do just fine. Ed Dames sit tight, we'll be right back.

[break]

Bell: Alright, back now to Major Ed Dames. Major Dames, ready?

Dames: Still ready, still there.

Bell: Alright, still ready on this end, too. First time caller line you are on the air with Major Ed Dames. Good morning.

Caller: Hi. This Terry, I'm in Reno.

Bell: Hi, Terry.

Caller: First of all I want to thank Ed Dames for all the work he's done. I believe that he is doing a very good work for humanity and I want to ask him about this spiritual event. Have you heard of a man called Drumvelo Malquisadec (sp)?

Dames: Yes.

Caller: OK. I went to a week long workshop to learn, basically, how to deal with this coming event and he spoke of it in depth. I just wanted to know if you wanted to say anything about that.

Dames: I'm only familiar with the individual indirectly and I'm not familiar with his message, so I can't speak about it.

Bell: Alright, fair enough. East of the Rockies you're on the air with Ed Dames. Hello.

Caller: Hi.

Bell: Hi.

Caller: I have three items.

Bell: Alright, where are you, sir?

Caller: I'm the one from Washington, D.C.

Bell: Washington, D.C., alright.

Caller: OK. Just as Dr. Lynn Horowitz contends Ebola and Aids are manmade and Joyce Riley contends the Gulf War was a big laboratory experiment...

Bell: Yes.

Caller: ... if Ed Dames' contention becomes a fact that Africa is showered with plant pathogens, I believe those pathogens won't be coming from non-humans but, rather, manmade and dropped on us. There's another plague like the others. Art, would you do some reverse speech of this show, that's one.

Bell: Well, I don't do reverse speech, that's the purview of a guest that I have on from time to time, as you well know.

Caller: I do, and you had offered previously to have David John Oates to do reverse speech of someone else that you had on your show so I am asking you...

Bell: Ya, absolutely. I mean, anyone who appears on my show is subject to the recording of and the reverse speech tactics of Mr. Oates, so yes. Next question.

Caller: OK. Two items, these are shorter. I heard here recently... firsthand... remote viewer and author... Psychic Warrior author... David Morehouse state TWA800 was hit with a high energy beam. Would you allow him and Major Dames to come on the show at the same time, together?

Bell: I'm not sure what the point would be. Major Dames has already commented on Mr. Morehouse and they have diverging views of what happened to Flight 800.

Dames: I'm not going to do that for another reason, Art.

Bell: Ya, plus what's the point. In other words, the NTSB will clear up who's correct, eventually.

Caller: Ok, then that would be my final point. Contrary to what Major Dames says, the National Transportation Safety Board is very much a political animal and this is spelled out in great detail...

Bell: So, in other words, you're saying you're not going to believe what they say, anyway.

Caller: No, you're putting words in my mouth. Just allow me to finish what I'm saying.

Bell: Please do.

Caller: This is spelled out in great detail in a book called 'Defrauding America' written by Rodney Stitch, who was a former investigator.

Bell: I know about Mr. Stitch, yes.

Caller: Would you have him on your show, Art? He has first hand experience.

Bell: I think Mr. Stitch has as wild an idea or concept as any remote viewer I've heard of.

Caller: What do you base that on? He was an investigator for the FAA for a number of years.

Bell: And he would come on and he would say, 'don't believe a word they would say', wouldn't he?

Caller: I don't know. Again, you are putting words in my mouth.

Bell: Yes, you do know if you've read... .sir, if you have read what Mr. Stitch has written, then you know I'm right.

Caller: As a matter of fact, I know you are not right because I have documents that substantiate his books... from independent sources, myself.

Bell: (laughter) Alright, well you're wrong... you're just flat wrong. He would say that he would not believe a word they would say. That is exactly what he would say and I don't want to get into an argument about it... I just happen to know that's true with regard to Mr. Stitch. We've had people here, on the air, talking about what Mr. Stitch has said about Flight 800 so... we'll leave that there. West of the Rockies you're on the air with Major Ed Dames. Hello.

Caller: Hello, this is PJ from Denver, Colorado.

Bell: PJ, you're gonna have to speak up good and loud for us.

Caller: Sure, Ed, thanks for coming on and, please, keep coming on because you challenge people to think. I'm Catholic, and there are a couple of Catholic prophesies that say... one from Medjugorje, Croatia and one from Garabandal, Spain... which says there's going to be a major spiritual event in which mankind will feel this change throughout the world... inside of each man... and that there is going to be a permanent site left... either in Garabandal, Spain where people can come to see this change. Ed, my question is, could this remote viewing that you're seeing ,of this phenomenal change, be the same thing that these visionaries in Medjugorje and Garabandal are predicting?

Dames: I'm directly or indirectly familiar with... I know about the events at Medjugorje but I'm not familiar with the one in Spain. All I can say is, that's as close as anything that I know, right now, because I just don't know how to put my finger on this. It is a permanent change... it is immediate, globally, and that's as good a call as any.

Bell: Alright, let me hit you with one close to that, Ed, and that is... biblical scholars would be familiar with the term, 'Wormwood', which is something that would poison a substantial portion of the earth.

Dames: Uh huh.

Bell: Would it be unreasonable to compare your cylindrical object, headed toward earth, to 'Wormwood'?

Dames: I think there's a pretty good correspondence, I would call that 'Wormwood'.

Bell: Uh huh. First time caller line you're on the air with Major Ed Dames. Hi.

Caller: Hi, this is Pat from Oregon.

Bell: Yessir.

Caller: I was curious about Ed Dames... these tapes that he's gonna have out?

Bell: Yes.

Caller: Is there any kind of guarantee that goes with them?

Bell: A guarantee.

Caller: I mean, ya, what if you buy them and they just don't work?

Dames: Actually, we had a guarantee but I removed it.

Caller: Oh, OK.

Dames: So, no, the guarantee is not there anymore.

Caller: OK.

Bell: I don't know how you would put a guarantee...

Dames: Well, the techniques are really pretty fascinating, Art. It's the language... the syntax and the grammar... for how unconscious communicates with conscious awareness and it's cut and dried. You follow the tapes and the lectures and you do it and it happens. Still, there is gonna be people who buy it just to have it sit on the shelves and they really don't attend to the lectures and it won't work for them.

Bell: Sure. Alright. I want you to listen to this, I think it's quite serious, Ed, and I it will probably launch you into what you want to say. If we have time at the end, we'll take another call or two. "Art, hello, I am a Ph.D. scientist who has grown and studied algae since the late 1970's. I currently work at a major US university. The Chlorella, which Major Dames mentions, is one of the easiest algae to grow. It is, or one of it's close relatives, often forms green scum on aquaria. In the lab, we grow it with little more than a few inorganic salts, basically, a very dilute fertilizer solution. It also grows well in what amounts to sterilized mud water or 'soil water medium', as it is called by biologists. The required apparatus to grow them, is also exceedingly simple. I used to grow them with nothing more than a jar of soil water medium, whose mouth was stopped with a cotton plug, set on a window pane for light. Larger quantities can easily be grown in 5 gallon water jugs. Nutritional analysis, that I've seen, show Chlorella to be a very good food source. It could be considered as something similar to spinach leaves which have been run through a blender. Incidentally, other microscopic algae are also currently being used for food... an example would be, the blue green algae Spirulina, which is available now from health food stores"

Bell: And the professor gives his name and his university but does not wish it on the air. Sound about right, Ed?

Dames: He sounds like a botanist. He's talking about the plants themselves. He does not sound like he's familiar, really, with the nutritional value of these algae but I wanted to talk to you about them.

Bell: OK.

Dames: Again, when we're looking at the survivors on barren wasteland, they have these vats full of Chlorella. Chlorella is an algae and I mentioned that this plant pathogen that is going to spread like wildfire and sweep through continents... taking out land plants... green plants. Luckily, based up on our work, it's not going to affect plants in the sea... most of which are algae...brown... blue green... blue and green. We're very lucky because they make up the majority of the phytoplankton... the first 200 feet, generally, of the ocean... that produce a great deal of the oxygen that we breathe. We are quite lucky, in that regard but, what do we do for food? Well, in these tanks, this substance of which people were eating, is Chlorella. Chlorella is an algae, it's been around on earth for about 2 1/2 billion years. It was here when the ozone layer was little or nothing, that means that it loves UV. It thrives in high sun... a lot of sunlight and high levels of ultraviolet radiation. It thrives under the conditions... those conditions... where mammals and many other animals and plants will die. That's a good thing because those are the kind of conditions we're entering. Don't go out in the sun. (laughter) This particular algae has all of the vital amino acids that we require, as human beings, and it's very healthy to boot. It tastes like something terrible. I means it's bland as can be, as those health food aficionados are already aware. I just tried the stuff to see what it would be like after discovering that this is what people are surviving on. It is first a food supplement and then it becomes a staple. As this doctor that faxed the letter mentioned, it is extremely easy to grow. It is a fresh water algae and it is, indeed, the kind of pond scum and algae that you see in your aquarium, once in awhile, if you don't clean it.

Bell: Ooooooh great Yum.

Dames: In concentration, and then prepared and dried and prepared a certain way that commercial companies prepare it now, and very well I might add, when it's eaten... it can be used solely as a food source... nothing else. It is going to be the thing that saves us and we will survive only because... we'll weather the storm only because this algae will become our food. Green algae cakes will become the money of the future, the lingua franca, because you can't eat gold.

Bell: No, you can't eat gold.

Dames: Another interesting thing about this particular species of algae, it's extremely effective at repairing DNA damage so, even if the ozone problem not only persists but gets much worse, this thing still seems to repair itself. It has a very large central nucleus... very large... and that means that genetic engineering can go in there and very easily manipulate that central nucleus and change it... perhaps make it taste better or increase the protein percentage. Naturally occurring, Chlorella has about 2 or 3% protein, which means you have to eat a lot of it to eat ten grams a day, which is generally the average to sustain a human being. That is a lot of algae. If you genetically engineer it to produce more protein, maybe we can get away with eating less of it.

Bell: Would we be healthier people if that's all we were eating? In other words, it would sustain us with enough nutrition, would it actually make us healthier?

Dames: You know what, Art, the answer is 'yes', surprisingly. It's shockingly so...

Bell: That would be for those of us who don't prefer death.

Dames: That's right. We'd probably be strangling each other if they don't do something with the taste of this but, we'd be very healthy when we did it.

Bell: Well, if you... maybe they can get it up to where it tastes like a 'quarter pounder' and then there's no problem.

Dames: I am very serious about it.

Bell: I know you are. I know you are.

Dames: It took many years to identify this particular food source and, because it is so cheap and it's so readily available, it was recognized as a potential food source 20 years ago. It's just that there are so many things that are much more tasty that we don't turn to it as a food. It's extremely healthy.

Bell: I thought it was worth reading from the professor. Basically, he was shocked and decided to back you up, right away, saying you are absolutely right. Under those conditions, that would be the food source that would work so you apparently are right about that.

Dames: Well, again, we trust our work... our expertise and we did identify it as Chlorella. That is a fresh water algae, the one you see that makes most of the fresh waters green. Pond sum, essentially, and prepared correctly, it is the healthiest thing around and, indeed, it may be the only thing around.

Bell: This has been a night full of specifics, despite what the disgruntled uncivilized have spewed forth. By the way, while I'm on that subject, Ed, there have been a couple of very rude people, inevitably there always are, we are becoming... not more... but very much less civilized, Ed, and I consider that to be part of what I call... my little word, phrase... the quickening.

Dames: We're barbarians and we've turned our earth into a cesspool.

Bell: I might not have quite said it that way but that is, basically, what is going on right now. Is that process going to continue to quicken and worsen?

Dames: It's a Mad Max scenario, Art, I'm afraid.

Bell: Mad Max. Alright, here is somebody who sent a fax, let me see... Paul sends this from Plymouth, Minnesota, "Please give the 800 number for the remote viewing training tapes again." Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Ed Dames is making money... yes, it is a commercial venture... yes, this is many thousands of dollars cheaper than any remote viewing course you have been able to previously get anywhere, as far as I know. Ed, tell 'em how to get the tapes.

Dames: OK. These are extremely effective ways of teaching you how to do, eventually, what I do. If you'd like these tapes, dial 1-800-556-0391, at your leisure.

Bell: Ok now, there is a first tape you can get, if you want it. In that first tape it lays out, I guess, well... what does it lay out, how you can do...

Dames: It's not how. It's a step by step instruction, with me as your instructor. The students you see in that tape range from 12 year old year old children, 15 year old high school kids, upwards to... we have a neurosurgeon with a Ph.D. in physics on the tape... actually doing this for the camera and then we walk you through... we explain everything that they are doing... both the theory and the techniques themselves. Then I walk you, the viewer, right through the process, in your own home.

Bell: That's in the first tape?

Dames: That's in the first tape. Your goal is to be able to, 100% of the time, discriminate between gross features like... and to describe them, all their characteristics... mountains, cities, water bodies and land bodies... and their characteristics... whether it's desert, cold, icy, snowing... those kinds of things and that gets you started. Then we move, in the home study course itself, we up the ante very quickly and it is complex.

Bell: But the first tape would give the average person for... what is it $49.95 or something... it would give them enough information to know if they want to go on.

Dames: It would give them... that's correct. It would give them the experience of remote viewing to see if they want to pursue it as a skill.

Bell: Alright, so you're going to pick a Polynesian island, where you have internet access and some sort of satellite phone so you can get back to me, and actually be on the air and on the internet and still communicate with the world... albeit, not from Los Angeles.

Dames: That's correct.

Bell: Alright, my friend, I want to thank you for being here. It has been an intriguing night. I wish you a good nights sleep, even if a lot of people out there will now not have one.

Dames: It's always a pleasure, Art.

Bell: Thank you, Ed, and good night.

Dames: Ok, goodnight to you.

Bell: That's PSI TECH's Major Ed Dames. [end] HOME