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This list was closed July 4, 1998

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Begin Archive #007 January 1998

Date sent: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:31:40 +0000
From: Alan Hughes
Subject: [Psi] What would you do?

Further to my first post on this question -

When I asked about fully functioning psi abilities, I was thinking of
something about which there could be no doubt, of science-fictional
dimensions. Lifting a tonne by PK, reading minds like an open book, moving
around with eyes closed navigating by ESP, precognition that is reliable
and accurate every time - that sort of ability.

This does not exist at the moment, but once research into the paranormal is
started, it is the ultimate aim and the ultimate possibility. Many people
would be very interested in anyone who had such an ability, ranging from
any parapsychology lab to any military or terrorist organisation.

If someone acquired workable powers in this sense, that person would have a
dilemma indeed, and my three questions would become very real. Science
fiction over the years has featured many stories about how people with psi
powers could use or misuse these abilities and how it might affect society
as we know it now. Power corrupts ...etc...

Obvious possibilities for misuse abound -
A telepath on the stock exchange - the ultimate "insider dealing."
Using PK to paralyze a heart muscle - the ultimate assassin.
Levitating into upper windows - the ultimate burglar.
Manipulating locks with clairvoyance and PK - the ultimate safe-breaker.

We would probably soon need a different sort of PsiCop...

What would I do? Good question...
What would many people do ... need one ask?

Alan Hughes


From: "PJ Gaenir"
Date sent: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:22:19 +0000
Subject: Re: [Psi] Genetics

Howdy Dan,

Now you see, I've been wanted to pick your brains for a long time,
and now I finally have my chance. :-)

>>In respect of the family thing, I don't like emphasising it when
>>talking to people because I don't think at root these things are
>>open, or should be, to only the selected few.

A friend of mine thinks that saying someone is naturally psychic is
like saying someone is a natural walker; that everybody has legs so
it's not something one thinks to mention. But some people certainly
do seem to be natural atheletes and natural musicians and the like --
even though all people have the same general equipment. It's
possible that the genetic relationship to psi may be at least as much
a matter of environment and one's infancy as anything, particularly
related to the mothers, since according to some philosophers, the
mother-baby telepathic bond is quite strong. (I've a few stories
about that myself.) So psi mothers might be far more inclined to
create psi children than psi fathers based on that -- that's not
taking into account the DNA issues that Tom posted earlier.

>>I only learnt after her death [...] that she and her brothers
>>talked to each other when miles apart in the early 1900s as though
>>they had walkie-talkies and only stopped when teachers expressed
>>horror....

In the writings of the American explorers Lewis and Clark, they
recounted times when they would arrive at a distant place some guide
was taking them to, only to have the people there (once, monks)
prepared, as supposedly the people from the other place had "told
them they were coming." Since they were going as fast as could be
gotten there and telephone didn't exist back then, that's a pretty
good case for something unusual.

>where 15 years ago tutors just accepted that 30% couldn't dowse, the
>scene has changed and a tutor is not up to it if there are more than
>about 3% failures.

Do you think that's due to the change in belief systems of the
students? Of the instructors? Both? Or do you think it's due to
something else?

>When we get on to psychometry, clairvoyance and guided writing,
>currently we get a fail figure of around 20%

These seem like, to use a comparison, higher-bandwidth
pieces of information; perhaps they are just not grokked or displayed
as quickly as dowsing. ?

>getting a class to RV a sketch plan of some buildings I put on the
>board and only one person in five got it right (old people's flats
>in Sheffield).

I'm not sure what criteria your "got it right" actually relates to
(?); there are many different ways of judging accuracy in RV.

>I think this stickiness again is thanks to unconscious fear - and
>that's the same thing that's at the root of family capabilities.

You're probably right about that. Earlier on the list we were
talking about "the decline effect" in RV and so on, and the typical
profile of people starting out phenomenally well, then dropping
dramatically, then very gradually, with a lot of work and time,
building up to a fairly decent average that is usually near, but
seldom as high as, their initial scores. This seems to be based on
psychology....

PJ


From: "PJ Gaenir"
Date sent: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:42:20 +0000
Subject: Re: [Psi] What would you do?

Hi Alan,

>What would you do? What would most people do?

My opinion/rambling only here.

I think the options for the first are limited. There are not exactly
lots of jobs out there for parapsychology subjects. The people who
currently do this at the most respectable labs are the best in the
world; you'd have to be pretty damn amazing just to be their peer.
Besides most people highly psi are not really equipped for dealing
with lab conditions, let alone enjoying it an prospering in that
environment.

The second option is an interesting one, but kind of speaks to some
fear on the part of the individual. After all, it's their ability,
they're in control. The fear in that case would likely relate to a
feeling they were NOT really in control (which is actually a pretty
common feeling with psychics!). About the only way to really
stomp on psi is to go into a massive psychological state of denial
that takes tremendous energy to uphold.

Developing it further and using it for personal ends is not really a
choice -- it happens anyway, short of some extreme measure such as
#2 above. Unfortunately, psi isn't like something you can tell to
show up between 7-9pm on weeknights when it's convenient, and do this
and that. It rushes through you like a river and tells you a million
things you didn't ask, many of which relate to your life (and so,
may be to your benefit or destruction as noted), another million
things you don't understand or can't place in this reality or time or
framework, and makes you sensitive to a lot of things that may not
even be psi but certainly affect you. (E.g., many physiological
things may be amped up. For instance I once realized I could sense
people coming into my office at work from some distance, and despite
too much noise to hear them. I sensed it as if the frequency around
me changed slightly; I compared to to "sonar." I've heard others do
this as well without hearing my account, so there must be something
to that.) And as discussed some on the VWR list recently, even
increases in sensitivity to or effect upon electronic equipment may
be seen. Not to mention potentially related issues I won't get into
here, such as sleep deprivation symptoms, screen memories, etc.

Your questions are good. I think after going through them in my
head, what I really come down to is the thought that it would be
valuable for any person who experiences psi effects or who is
attempting to get in touch with that aspect of themselves, to sit
down and really consider *how they want to structure their approach
to and response to* the subject.

In the end this comes down to a very deliberate way of interpreting
things, not just the events, but how you and the data you grok fits
into the picture of reality you may hold. Most people's pictures of
reality are not nearly big enough to hold the universe of themselves
that they encounter via psi, and promptly crack and go crashing to
the ground. Some people are able to build another one that works for
them. Some people just crack, period. ;-) (I grin, but wryly; it's
really not that funny.)

So it's pretty useful to ask yourself these kinds of questions, what
you believe, why you believe it, and so on. And when you're not
asking these questions Alan, how would YOU answer them?

PJ


From: "johnm"
Subject: [Psi] Psychic ability & gender
Date sent: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:45:52 -0600

Hi y'all,

It has been my feeling for a very long time that a disproportionate
number of women are gifted with psychic ability. As we know, the
expression "call it women's intuition" is commonly used to explain
many things that, for a male, defy logic.

Ingo Swann has also pondered this possibility. A couple
of quotes from his site that I found interesting..

"feminist historians have built a good case regarding the secret
purpose of the Inquisitions. This goal was not to condemn and punish
religious heresy, but to exterminate the female "psychic" healers
and counselors of the times under the misunderstanding that the female
line carried the dreaded Psi faculties. And indeed, the statistics
of Inquisitions, still in existence, show that about 75 per cent or
more of the victims were female."

"Feminist historians majorly tend to interpret this as the
determination of a macho male society to exterminate the source of
undue female influence, a factor that does need to be considered.
But the female influence was, in the first place, derived from
higher-stage functioning of at least some of the superpowers of the
human biomind."

Our benefactress and hostess PJ, obviously also psychically gifted,
could provide extremely interesting data derived from the two lists
plus her e-mail and research (if she were so inclined and could somehow
find the time).

PJ has also alluded to mother-child telepathy. I, for one, can hardly
wait for her to tell us more.

John McCabe
Houston


Date sent: Wed, 21 Jan 98 22:55 GMT0
From: (Daniel Wilson)
Subject: Re: [Psi] Genetics

PJ, that's a lot of questions ! So be it ...

DW:
> >where 15 years ago tutors just accepted that 30% couldn't dowse, the
> >scene has changed and a tutor is not up to it if there are more than
> >about 3% failures.
PJ:
> Do you think that's due to the change in belief systems of the
> students? Of the instructors? Both? Or do you think it's due to
> something else?

The whole scene is changing its character. We are learning we have more
of a handle on what can happen than we used to. In doing that, we
conquer the fears associated with doing something impossible.

DW:
> >When we get on to psychometry, clairvoyance and guided writing,
> >currently we get a fail figure of around 20%
PJ:
> These seem like, to use a comparison, higher-bandwidth
> pieces of information; perhaps they are just not grokked or displayed
> as quickly as dowsing. ?

I'd guess, "more impossible" ! so more fearful until you are crashed
into doing them. In a class of ten I will usually only have one person
who's even attempted any of them. Psychometry is usually successful in
some degree because the criteria for what is "good" are so widely cast
and any correct fact from a list of hundreds will do.

DW:
> >getting a class to RV a sketch plan of some buildings I put on the
> >board and only one person in five got it right (old people's flats
> >in Sheffield).
PJ:
> I'm not sure what criteria your "got it right" actually relates to
> (?); there are many different ways of judging accuracy in RV.

I asked: "what are the buildings used for ? Where, roughly, are they
(that is, in the UK) ?" Any answer to both questions to which my
comment would be "yes" constituted success. The successful RVer said:
"they're an old people's home. In a northern city." I did not demand
Sheffield, but Yorkshire would have been OK too.

The same person then correctly (and uniquely) identified a classmate's
buildings plan as a very old chemicals factory in Kent - but not which
one or exactly where.

DW:
> >I think this stickiness again is thanks to unconscious fear - and
> >that's the same thing that's at the root of family capabilities.
PJ:
> You're probably right about that. Earlier on the list we were
> talking about "the decline effect" in RV and so on, and the typical
> profile of people starting out phenomenally well, then dropping
> dramatically, then very gradually, with a lot of work and time,
> building up to a fairly decent average that is usually near, but
> seldom as high as, their initial scores. This seems to be based on
> psychology....

This is where we get onto the "hidden agenda" of psycho stuff. Why do
beginners in healing do so well and then run into trouble once they're
really dug into it ?

I think we have a built-in imperative to improve and our unconscious
mind, once encouraged to service it, orchestrates our progress so that
we are given enough carrots to continue and enough sticks to grit our
teeth and persevere in the face of adversity. We have banks and banks
of negativity we're not aware of about doing unorthodox things and the
difficulties and disappointments that stack up for practitioners are
purely the unconscious showing we have run into our own natural walls
of possibility.

What you do about it is very much your affair. For me, the arcane idea
of "protection" is wholly counter-productive - you are only protecting
against your own self-development. So I take what I've heard described
as "the psychic Sherman tank" route: you forge ahead and imagine
yourself into a position where the current round of problems have been
dissolved away. After you've done this a few times you start looking
for the short-cuts to the short-cuts. I feel I'm fortunate in being a
philosophical sceptic to the degree of doubting existence at all,
because it leads to a dim recognition that we can rewrite our CD of
rules. The trouble is, where's the CD ? And how do we rewrite it ?

Dan Wilson


Date sent: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:40:59 GMT
From: Brian Oldham
Subject: Re: [Psi] What would you do?

[...]
>If someone acquired workable powers in this sense, that person would have a
>dilemma indeed,
[...]
>Obvious possibilities for misuse abound -
>A telepath on the stock exchange - the ultimate "insider dealing."
>Using PK to paralyze a heart muscle - the ultimate assassin.
>Levitating into upper windows - the ultimate burglar.
>Manipulating locks with clairvoyance and PK - the ultimate safe-breaker.

Do you know, I have made three starts trying to compose my answer
to your question and scrapped them each time as rubbish. Between
you and me Alan, deciding whether to give a totally truthful answer
turns out to be a bigger dilemma than deciding what to do with such
powers. It is one thing to get a reputation for being agressive and
undiplomatic, not to mention sometimes wrong (par for the course in
debating forums (fora?) ) but to be thought an evil bounder is most
undesirable. Yet what's the point of lying?

To take up a career as the ultimate criminal I guess I should need to
be assured about two things a) there is no God to judge me and
b) I have total faith in my ability to avoid capture and death. It is this
religion thing again you see. One theory of psi (Palyne help me out
please) is that its mechanism may turn out to be totally explainable
in terms of physics. There may be no exotic alternate universes or
other dimensions - just, as yet, badly understood physics. Therefore
God and his kingdom become even more remote; not to say, unlikely.
In that case why the hell should I bother to be good? Why give to
Children In Need? Why help old ladies across the street? Why should
I not follow my nature as defined by my genetic code and simply live for
me?

Other theories though, suggest that psi might perhaps be due to faults
in the space/time continuum (whatever that is) which allow glimpses of
the other side and/or shortcuts to other place/times in our own world.
In this these theories a "other side" is necessary to explain e.g. spirits
of the departed. In such cases God may exist. Then I should hesitate
to incur His wrath.

So, as you see, the bottom line is: It all depends...

Brian


Date sent: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:09:31 GMT
From: Brian Oldham
Subject: [Psi] What is a ghost?

More specifically, what is an apparition?

The story of the workman in the cellars of an old building in York,
England who saw a troop of Roman soldiers march into the cellar
and out the opposite wall is well known in the history of British
paranormal folk lore.

Another story is one I read in the Sunday Express Magazine who
were running a series of "Classic Mysteries". Forgive me, I don't
remember exact details but, condensed, it goes something like
this: A woman, living in India at the time of British occupation, one
day saw her son, a lieutenant in uniform, in the doorway, smiling
whom she believed was on vacation in Paris, France. She looked
away for a second as she rose to greet him and when she looked
again he was gone. At precisely the same time (she learned later)
her cousin, then somewhere else - back in England I think - also
"saw" him. The mother was informed by telegram from the military
authorities of his death which, ostensibly, had occurred at the exact
time of the apparition.

Yet other stories, numerous in the tome by Gurney Myers and
Podmore "Phantasms of the Living", tell of apparitions of normal
living people; not all in crisis by any means.

Three different types of ghost; the first long since dead, the second
at the moment of death and the third, still living.

Whatever their various causes and origins may be, I wonder, to get
right to the root of the problem, how real a ghost is. Does it occupy
physical space at the coordinates perceived by the eye. Does it
displace air, or does it have existence only in the brain? Are there
stories of ghosts that have actually "felt" solid? Is light reflected from
it and is there a real image upon the retina? Or is it merely an
hallucination - albeit perhaps, psi generated?

--
Brian


From: USPsiSquad
Date sent: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 07:01:24 EST
Subject: Re: [Psi] What is a ghost?

Brian:

Many reputed cases of 'hauntings' belong to the 'video tape replay' category,
wherein an event which happened once at some time seems to 'replay' itself
over and over again. There is no real 'haunting'.

An investigative group here has been able to photograph several in 20 years.
So it is not entirely a 'psi' thing.

As to 'tactile' in several cases, not including the classic 'cold spot' there
has been a sort of physical 'touch' which was felt by a sleeping person who
then awoke while still feeling the touch.

Extensive research by authorities such as Dr. Wm. Roll and others has not
been able to answer all of your questions. Probably because there is no one,
set, right, all=covering answer.

I suggest you do some deep study and try to find some empirical answers.

Bevy J


Date sent: Sun, 25 Jan 98 00:40 GMT0
From: (Daniel Wilson)
Subject: Re: [Psi] What is a ghost?

Brian asked:
> Are
> there stories of ghosts that have actually "felt" solid? Is light
> reflected from it and is there a real image upon the retina? Or is
> it merely an hallucination - albeit perhaps, psi generated?

One of my ghost jobs had rattled the sufferers profoundly. The family
was mother (divorced), daughter, son and son's girlfriend. Their house
was a conversion of a brick barn with two cylindrical "oasts" on the
end. The oasts (sometimes called oast houses) have the characteristic
conical roofs with white vanes on the top that you see travelling
through Kent (Herefordshire has them as well but those are square in
plan). Mostly built 150 years ago for drying hops for British "bitter"
(the warm beer that takes a year to tolerate) they are now mostly
converted to domestic use with windows and an upper floor. The family
had two on the end of the barn and had just completed such a
conversion, with two circular bedrooms upstairs and a kitchen and
dining-room with linking door downstairs.

The builders having departed, they went out to celebrate by seeing a
film and having a meal out. Returning late, they were alarmed to see
the dining-room light on when they had left in daylight. All the doors
were secure, however, and they approached the dining-room with less
apprehension.

Within was a horrific sight that at first paralysed them. Propped in a
chair and leaning against the table was a charred corpse, looking like
a napalm victim. It had evidently been placed there as there was no
damage to the furniture, but some flakes of charred flesh had fallen
onto the table. The mother touched it to see if it was still warm; it
was solid and stone cold.

What had happened ? Was this a gruesome practical joke ? Had there been
an accident ? Unwilling to expose themselves to ridicule, they decided
that notifying the police, if appropriate, was something that must have
happened earlier and an explanation would be forthcoming in the
morning. They locked the door on the corpse and went to bed, except for
the girlfriend, who said she could never stand the house anyway, and
left for her flat in London.

In the morning (surprised ?) the door was locked and the corpse had
gone, with all traces. The mother's acupuncturist put her on to me.

My reading of it was that the joining of the oasts by the doorway was
the key. Two linked circles signify dimensionless harmony to the
unconscious mind, so for healthy people the house was excellently
designed. But the barn had been haunted - by a crazy labourer whose
particular psychosis had been fear of harmony. So far as I could tell
he had immolated himself with colza oil (rape seed oil, used for lamps
before petroleum) nearby in about 1760. The corpse had been a replay.

When I cleared the house of him, there was a rattling at all the
windows. Birds were fighting for territory under the eaves. "Funny,"
said the mother, "I've never seen birds near this place until now."
Later, the girlfriend decreed the house transformed.

Dan Wilson


From: Dragnwng69
Date sent: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:05:21 EST
Subject: Re: [Psi] What is a ghost?

In a message dated 98-01-24 19:58:27 EST, you write:
<< they decided
that notifying the police, if appropriate, was something that must have
happened earlier and an explanation would be forthcoming in the
morning. They locked the door on the corpse and went to bed, except for
the girlfriend, who said she could never stand the house anyway, and
left for her flat in London. >>

A very interesting Story, But I don't know about the rest of you, If I saw a
charred corpse in my house I would NOT be heading off to bed... rather I would
be calling the polise on the spot and spending many a sleepless night.

~Sarah


From: "PJ Gaenir"
Date sent: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:00:39 +0000
Subject: Re: [Psi] Women & Children & Psi

Hi John,

>It has been my feeling for a very long time that a disproportionate
>number of women are gifted with psychic ability. As we know, the
>expression "call it women's intuition" is commonly used to explain
>many things that, for a male, defy logic.

We were discussing in other posts the transfer of types of DNA that
are female-only, however, there are those which are male-only too.
On a private BBS of mine someone was saying that this idea bothered
them, mostly because it led to the idea that some people have the
ability and some are just outta luck. I kind of agree that I don't
feel comfortable with that. I do believe that all people inherently
have all abilities and it's only a matter of manifesting what one
chooses out of what one is.

Women have, it is true, long demonstrated more comfort with
intuition, but I would chalk this up to two main sources:

1- Cultures which do not allow men to be emotional, and
2- Cultures which tend to make men more violent and active and
work-oriented.

In my experience, when I am quiet psi experiences are far more likely
to happen than when I am working or particularly if I were to be
soldiering or something like that. (Except in the case of survival-
oriented psi as we discussed earlier.) And belief systems --
comfort and acceptance of it -- are probably the #1 barrier. So to
me it may have nothing to do with gender but everything to do with
the cultures the genders are found in. Some native tribes, the men
were the mystics. In many cultures, the gay men were the mystics;
sort of a cross between the masculine and feminine. In any case this
seems to demonstrate that it was a cultural belief system that may
have been responsible, more than any genetic tendency.

>Our benefactress and hostess PJ, obviously also psychically gifted,

Ha! You jest. I am not psychically gifted, hate to say. I'm just
interested in psychic ability, which is not really the same thing.

>PJ has also alluded to mother-child telepathy.

Well there are a number of forms this comes in and it's often
difficult for me to tell if it's really psi or something else. For
instance I often just get the sudden thought, "Ry's cold!" and I go
in the living room (I work in my study, her dad works in the living
room) to find she has taken her clothes off (her favorite thing of
late!) and is running around in a diaper and it IS sort of chilly in
the living room (it's warm in my study). She doesn't seem to notice
it, she's playing happily. (Her dad, of course, is oblivious.)

The first thing I really noticed in regards to her perception was
when she was nursing. I was lucky enough to be home with her
so she nursed for about 9 months. (Until she started biting! OUCH!)
Babies at the breast tend to kind of space into this lazy contented
mood and they are drawn to the mother's face, especially eyes. So
she would sort of rest her eyes on mine while eating. One day I was
looking back at her (as I often did) and we were just staring at each
other for awhile. Then I visualized this stream of sort of like,
gold sparkly things coming from my forehead and doing little
kissy-things all over her face. And the moment I began visualizing
this (though I was still looking at her eyes), her eyes widened and
completely shifted to staring at my forehead, as if something there
had really got her attention. I mean it was perfectly obvious she
SAW something. I thought maybe I had imagined it, or it was
something else. I worked for months on doing that sort of thing
while she nursed, from different areas of my body that she could see,
to see if her focus would shift to look at that area. About 90% of
the time it did. (So.... not always, in other words, but ALMOST
always.)

As has been documented in the last decade though, there are actually
not five senses -- there are 17. A tremendous amount of what people
are prone to call "psi" ability is in fact a physiological sense. It
is just less obvious than the five we are more familiar with. It's
possible that babies are born with survival instincts turned to a
pretty high level for obvious reasons of vulnerability, and so are
more sensitive to these body fields. It's also possible, going back
to the women's intuition subject, that if women in our cultures have
long seemed more psi, this could also be related to the fact that
women have, in our history anyway, always been the vulnerable ones,
always been far more at the mercy of circumstance. Until recently,
women were basically undeclared-slaves to a great extent. I can see
that their intuition ought to be a little higher in that case.

When I lived in coastal southern California, I had daily visions,
massive psychic experiences, entities and aliens in my living room,
and regular notices of impending doom. I left California, and about
99.8% of everything simply VANISHED. No more of that stuff.

At the time it was happening, I suspected that the frequencies
surrounding me were "mutating" me -- that mankind's barrage of
technology is literally "tuning him" to other frequencies where
"other things live" -- so to speak. I also suspected that the
chronic focus on geological/weather-doom that the news there has
(went back last year briefly and was amazed at how right I was about
that!), combined with the REAL constant traumas the place had had for
years, was actually causing my "perception to expand" as a form of
"survival instinct." Both individually and as part of the mass.
(This actually correllates to findings about demonstrable psi being
some kind of survival talent.) (Though now, I suspect that have done
about a year of delta-meditations probably brought most of it on.)
In any case that would support the idea that feeling vulnerable could
increase awareness of psi data.

Note I didn't say increase psi data -- I said increase awareness of
it. I still hold the theory that we are simply one part of a
spectrum, and that all these other parts of the spectrum and their
events and inhabitants and communications happen with or without our
noticing -- when we DO notice, we call it a "psychic experience."
But that doesn't mean we created it.... it just means we noticed it.

PJ


End Archive #007 January 1998

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