firedocs archives

Public Viewer Email Group
Archive 002
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This is an archive file of the public Viewer [VWR] email list. This list is sponsored by the private Viewer Forum, hosted by Paradigm Systems and Design, and owned and operated by PJ Gaenir. It is dedicated to discussion of the practical aspects, theories and experience of formal psychic methodologies such as Controlled Remote Viewing, and independent efforts by the public interested in working under the formal RV protocol (the set of rules which define "remote viewing" as the term was coined in a science lab). You can find details, rules, and a form for joining the email group here. The list is moderated during operation and archiving. I remove last names and detail locations of contributors (within the archives) for privacy, and signatures for space conservation. I have added notes marking the posts from former U.S. intelligence remote viewers. Archiving of posts is done manually and may not include all posts.

This is the second archive.


APRIL 01 1997 TO APRIL 10 1997
BEGIN ARCHIVE 2

Hello,

My name is Lael Buchanan, and I'm currently in charge of making the Training arrangements for P>S>I. I started this job about a month ago and, despite the fact that my father is Lyn Buchanan, only a month ago started my proper training in CRV.

I'm on this list in the hope that it will help me learn as much as possible about Remote Viewing in the shortest time possible.

Lael Buchanan


Bradford,

Try www.monroe-inst.com for Monroe Inst. Courtney Brown ,who is a student of ?????????, (I think I know), in his book Cosmic Journey, promotes the Monroe Institutes' Gateway program as the second phase of "his" proposed student curiculum; a sort of psychic conditioning program prior to RV training. Of course CB's Art Bell appearances have been connected with the Heaven's Gate fiasco. [CB is a student of Ed Dames. - PJ.]

"The gate of heaven is everywhere"-Thomas Merton

I think D. Morehouse also refers to Monroe in his book, Psychic Warrior.

However, I am a total newbie so take my info with skepticism. Hopefully Paul Smith, Lyn Buchanan, PJ or some other experienced RVer will give you feedback on HemiSync.

It seems to me though as a useful tool to the novice and I intend to investigate it also. I have ordered a similiar biaural product from www.brainsync.com out of Sante Fe, NM. Brad, please give me feedback if you use Gateway.

What do you think Mr. RVIS?

Keep up the good work PJ! The gods are smiling.

My intro to follow.

Gday,

Vic


Greetings,

I had a some question which was sparked by conversations between Alan, Paul, and PJ. I feel I have a basic understanding of how a remote viewer acquires a target in the present.

1. What I was curious about was how one can view events, locations or objects in the future accurately if we consider the feasibility of chaos theory where there a multiple futures possible (and conversely multiple pasts) for a particular event?

2. If we view an event in the future, and react to it in the present will it change the future, Will that in turn alter the information that was remote-viewed?

<<The Spiritual hologram precedes the physical universe action.

3. Alan, does then the Spiritual hologram then also follow the physical universe action?

4. PJ, could either you or [edited] elaborate more about this method?

Thanks,

Roger


Hi Laura,

<<One thing on which I would like further clarification is the difference between the definitions of 'description' and 'analysis' of a target. What constitutes pure 'description' and when does it start to become 'analysis'? Would an example be something like this: Description: a white, hollow, half-spherical object, possibly a bowl Analysis: something in which you store food>>

To use your examples Laura:
Descriptions: white, concave, natural [perhaps stone]
Conceptuals: used for storage; storage of food
Analysis: possibly a bowl.

A description is something that is pretty much the "root" descriptive. Anything beyond that becomes analysis. The degree of analysis is sometimes a little shady... for instance, if the target was a wooden barn, you can say "large rectangular manmade of natural materials" and that's descriptive. If you say 'building,' that's a MILD form of analysis, but it's allowed. If you say "it's a barn," that's analysis. However, you could, in the structure of CRV, list conceptuals that describe it as a barn, such as that it stores things such as grain, or that it houses things such as large animals. In the higher phases rules change slightly, as one is often describing more conceptuals than basic shapes, so obviously concepts (which are generally analytical constructs) have to be used.

<<The reason I'd like further clarification on the above terms is because PJ said something along the lines that descriptions tend to be more accurate, but when people start to analyse a target their accuracy begins to go down very rapidly.

Here's an example, using your own sample data:
a white, hollow, half-spherical object, possibly a bowl

Say somebody gives you a blind target. Just numbers. You get out three small descriptives and decide it's a bowl. The further analysis, since you've decided it might be a bowl, says maybe it holds food. Before you're done at that rate, you're describing a sunny kitchen with yellow curtains. :-)

In addition to it possibly being a 'piece' of something totally unrelated, it could be something like, say, a military helmet painted white for snow zone. Now if you've been blind targeted to find evidence and you start describing a fruit bowl instead of a snow helmet, there is going to be a real problem putting your data to use.

But that's a small and kind of silly example. You can see how, in the course of an entire session (or multiple sessions), analysis and assumptions could increase exponentially. Think of it as an outline or pathway: the moment you make a wrong turn, every turn after that only takes you farther away.

And I'm here to tell you, once you decide it's a fruit bowl, you'll start getting data that tells you it's a fruit bowl. The mind is brilliant at categorizing; it will toss out data that doesn't fit the picture -- we create reality all the time. And it will happily hand you data and more assumptions that do. So you pretty much have to learn not to make them in the first place, or learn to absolutely let go of them the moment you do.

PJ


Roger wrote:

<<3. Alan, does then the Spiritual hologram then also follow the physical universe action?

Yes, in most cases. A lot depends on the power of the originator of the hologram.
For example the Pyramids of Egypt, the 747, the Empire State Building, etc., etc. were at one time, just a thought hologram.
Each persons life is created by a series of holograms. Your identities are created by a hologram.
Too make matters more complex, there are holograms within holograms.
The Spiritual Being (You) create the hologram. You can put full visio, audio, color, emotions and all perceptics in them, including time, space and objects.
It is your hologram that is the software for your mind.

The sequence goes like this:

[the little chart didn't come out right in the archive, so I deleted it, sorry. - PJ]

I call this the Ability Paradigm. The Being creates the hologram as a three dimensional representation of the intention. The hologram programs the Mind - the Mind enters the Physical Universe and programs the Body - the Body acts out the program and produces a result or product.

The Physical Universe is an actualized solidified hologram.
If the Being is in a weakened state, then outside forces can program him instead. He ends up doing things he doesn't want to do, consequently ends up with results and life conditions that are unwanted.
A dysfunctional person is in conflict with someone elses holograms.
Therefore there are four basic areas you can view or perceive.

1. The Spiritual creation = hologram.
2. The Mind creation = Agreement and empowerment of the original hologram.
3. The Body acting out the hologram.
4. The result or product of the hologram.

It takes an extremely high level of awareness to perceive 1 and 2.
This is a vast area and has exciting potential to unlocking the psychic power that all Beings have.
The law I work on is: You are doing what you are doing, when you are doing it.
You can then trace back, up the paradigm to whats causing you to fail or succeed in an area.
Many people are restricted in their psychic power, by the negative holograms of those they are associated with.

I first became aware of the hologram effect, when I was a pro-football player in Australia. Some days I could see the opposing teams holograms, this allowed me to be in the right place, at the right time. I would dominate the game.
I was in the Gold Zone. (Outside time and space.) Athletes are very aware of this phenomena.

Hope this helps,

Alan


Thanks, PJ...

My guess (about myself) is, that the prospects of my becoming "effectively" involved, as a viewer, are, themselves, "remote"...based upon my own limitations in the realm of perception. (I'm a real "mark" for a 'con', though I've learned to be a little cautious [skeptical], and "bite" only upon things over which I can afford to be 'stung'.) Perhaps this is my motive for wishing to acquire the art.

Anyway, thanks agains. I'll keep listening.

Bob


I obviously still haven't got the hang of this e-mail group stuff, since I sent this directly to Vic; so here it is for the rest of you:

As I'm in the throws of another paper (due this afternoon), I can only answer briefly. Gateway, hemi-sync tapes, or both are good (but not mandatory) preparation for RV training. I was sent through a Monroe course (a Gateway-equivalent, though it was called something else) before being put in "Ingo" training. When politics/budget wouldn't allow this, new RV trainees would often be run on hemi-sync tapes at least up through Focus 10. It seems that it helps one learn to get both hemispheres talking to each other, as well as teaches how to relax and open one's mind. Again, it's not an ESSENTIAL prerequisite for CRV training, but it can help.

Paul

[Archive Note: Paul H. Smith, former U.S. Intell RV]


(to PJ) The problem I have with your definition is, it is to vague.

So in my audacious position as a "newbie" I propose the following as a definition: (Feel free to attack!:-)

Definition:

CONTROLLED REMOTE VIEWING:

The action of a Being KNOWINGLY using their psychic abilities to traverse outside time and space to a focused area, and to perceive what is there.

The validity of the Controlled Remote Viewing is qualified by the accuracy of the viewed areas exactness and correctness of the who, what, where, when, form, how, mood, and consequences of what is being perceived.

[quotes etc. edited]

Alan


Hello.

I'm Nancy [edited...] By training and profession I am in the healing arts. I think that's how to say it; it's simple, anyway. I study anatomy and health topics. I also study law as a hobby. I'm interested in patriot topics, not in the way of playing "ain't-it-awful" but rather in the way of, "what is the solution?" I believe in the Constitution of the United States and I think Remote Viewing has the most profound potential to save our planet and our liberty in a number of ways, since the concept of SECRETS is now clearly outmoded... Thank God.

I've been interested in "weird" (that's what they told me, anyway) stuff since I was about 5. I've been able to see with my hands for about 15 years now and have been doing remote scan & treatment since 1989. Information presents itself to me, and also I can get pretty much any information I want, but of course it is all front-loaded. I follow the energy signature of the person (mostly it's a person), locate them, and read. I don't need to see them or have any information about them. Lyn says it's called mental psychometry. I do not read or treat without permission, due to concerns about invasion of privacy, unless my personal safety or that of someone I care about is in question. Then I seem to have tacit permission to do what is needed to either learn information that allows me to make a good decision, or to neutralize the threat. I don't do parlor tricks or fortune-telling; I leave those things to psychics. I prefer to work behind the scenes, and Lyn's AWP appeals to me a lot, once I master the protocol.

I'm not at all interested in espionage for advantage of power, but only for advantage in the way of increasing exposure of truth and furthering liberty.

I first heard the term Remote Viewing in May 1996 when I saw David Morehouse on Sightings. He seemed to have had his reality blasted by a bunch of things I'd been taking for granted since childhood. My hair literally stood up, and I said, "I must find out more." I knew it was my next study, to become master of the protocol that would broaden my vision, deepen the field, and improve accuracy. I spent the summer trying to find Morehouse, and in the meantime I read Cosmic Voyage, Mind Trek, Journeys out of the Body, and made arrangements to go to Monroe.

I attended Monroe Institute's Gateway program in September after which my abilities exploded and I had to get more training. I started to study with the AARV in January and am studying and working on mastery. Sometimes I feel I will never get this thing. I want to study in depth with Lyn and others. I'm not too interested in OOB; I'd rather stay in the body and bilocate, so that I can communicate "here" regarding what I'm seeing "there" (we need a new bunch of jargon for this stuff, or maybe we already do and I haven't learned it yet).

Just remember, folks, "In order to improve psychically, you have to grow philosophically. Then you take your morality very seriously, and to hell with what the government wants." That was said in my presence by one of the former Army RV'ers, and I don't have his permission to quote him by name, but isn't it good?

I'm very, very glad and honored to be part of this group.

Best of all, Nancy

PS, Be sure to read Cosmic Warrior, by David Morehouse. So excellent.


It has been said in many places, but probably needs to be said again, that CRV and OOBE (astral travel) are completely different things. (see below)

>...but in the mean time I intend to learn as much as I can which is why I'm on this list.

It looks like it's going to be a very good list for doing just that. PJ's efforts, as well as her dedication in terms of time and work have really been impressive.

>... Has anybody out there heard of the Monroe Institute's Hemi-Sinc tapes? Do they work?

I have been through the Monroe course, but it was years ago. I have heard the they have really advanced it lately. The tapes, while they are made for the "average" person who will be listening to them, do work very well. Monroe puts out the standard Hemisync tapes, but they also put out specialty tapes for such things as enhanced concentration, weight loss, better golf game, etc. Definitely worth looking into.

>...They claim to be able to teach Remote Viewing.

The tapes are more geared toward OOBE. The term "remote viewing" is used by a lot of people to mean different things (see above), and this is one of them. "Remote viewing" originally meant the set of protocols which, under strict, scientific controls, could be used to test, evaluate, quantify and prove innate psychic ability. Once it gained scientific respect, almost everyone who had ever done anything "psychic" jumped onto the bandwagon and started calling what they do "remote viewing". In my opinion, they have just done a disservice to their own disciplines, since almost every one of the other disciplines has a huge history of its own research, most of it very good. Now, all that is being lost because noone wants to say that they are a "clairvoyant" - they want to say they are a "remote viewer". Anyway, lately, a distinction has had to be made between the New Age adoption of "remote viewer" to mean anything and everything psychic, and the formal, scientific method. Therefore, the formal, scientific method is now being called "Coordinate RV" or even more recently, "Controlled RV".

Lyn Buchanan

[Archive Note: Lyn Buchanan, former U.S. Intell RV]


OK Viewers,

Now that we've had some time to see who's here and what the interests are, I'm going to make yet another more serious go at this definition process. It is important that this be defined, for the following reason:

This is a remote viewing email group. It is sponsored by the private Viewer Forum, which is a CRV group. It's more relaxed than that is, it allows many different takes on RV, but still, all within one umbrella of similar methodologies and controls.

All people are invited to join this email group to learn about CRV, and to participate. However, I need to make clear that it is NOT a group for:

All of these things are bound to come up now and then. But all of these things have email lists devoted to them, or open to them. This list is specifically for controlled remote Viewers, and for people interested in the kind of remote viewing that was studied scientifically, and that was performed in the military, and that is now being taught by a number of sources.

The abovementioned non-list-topics are interesting subjects. If they are, however, your only reason for being interested in remote viewing, I must say right up front, they are NOT remote viewing. People may call them remote viewing, but they are not RV in the "classical" sense -- that scientifically studied by SRI/SAIC and that taught and performed in Army intelligence -- and that is what this email group is dominantly about and for.

While I'm open to a cross-section of ideas and experience, I can't really make it a free-for-all, or it sort of defeats the whole purpose of creating a group to educate people about 'real' RV.

So here's the first thing:

1. CRV will teach people to perform controlled remote viewing. That's all it will teach them to do. It will not teach them to control out of body experiences. It will not teach them to generate out of body experiences. In fact, it comes very close to being the opposite of an out of body experience. It will not teach them to "prove" anything, including aliens (especially aliens). It will teach them to perform controlled remote viewing, and that includes its advantages and limitations. Period.

2. Now, when practiced correctly over time, CRV will as a by-product get people more in touch with their subconscious, spirituality, and change their reality perspective. But those are not focuses. If those are the focuses you're most interested in, CRV is the hardest, longest, and least direct route of getting there. I suggest anything else. I do not recommend CRV unless you are specifically interested IN CRV, and unless its limitations are acceptable to you, and unless its rigid structure and its proper application are in fact the kind of thing you enjoy and your personality has a talent for. It is not something you can learn a little of, consider yourself an expert at, and move on, like many 'spiritual tools' are that people interested in metaphysics 'collect'. You either knock yourself out to learn and practice until you're good at it, or you're better off not doing it at all. That may sound harsh, but I think that others who are far more expert at it than I am will agree.

3. Remote Viewing as defined by me, and this is my email group :-), is one of two things:

Any other form of "viewing remotely" is not included in what this list is directed toward.

For those of you who are now uninterested in this list -- and I understand that may be the case -- unsubscribe directions are part of my signature. I can recommend other email groups if you are interested.

For those of you interested specifically in CRV, stick around.

I'd like to hear some of the easy/hard/etc. comments about the practice targets -- anybody been working them??

PJ The Strict :-)


>...... Has anybody out there heard of the Monroe Institute's Hemi-Sinc tapes? Do they work?

Hi,

Let me quote for you one of a very good (and sympathetic) remote-viewer I met at The Monroe Institute, Joe McMoneagle :

To the question "Does the Hemi-Sync system used by the TMI have any effect on remote viewing ?", Joe answered : "...Yes. It doesn't necessarily improve the quality of the remote viewing result, but it does considerably shorten the cool-down period before an experiment. Prior to using the Hemi-Sync system, my cool-down periods were sometimes hours long. It was very difficult trying to get into the necessary frame of mind. After using the Hemi-Sync tapes for about a year, these cool-down periods were virtually eliminated, or at least cut down to three to five minutes." (in Mind Trek, exploring consciousness, time, and space through remote viewing. By Joseph McMoneagle. Hampton Roads, publishing company, Inc. 1993. pp 225-226).

I have a TMI tape on RV at home and can, by using it from time to time, confirm the above.

And let me tell you, by the same time, you do well (from my point of view) to attend Lyn's course if you want to get closer to CRV knowledge and practice :)

Hope it helps
Jean-Luc.


PJ,

This is Mark and I, to be completely truthful, at a loss. I have attempted a practice target and also a target on another home page but I basically don't know where to begin. Is there some place on the web I can find a list of the protocols and their basic utilization. I started with a piece of blank paper and just basically wrote down any impression I got, trying to remember to describe and not identify (whew, I see why a monitor is preferable) and then jotted some sketches down. I tried one of the targets (I wish I could remember the home page now, but I do have it written down) on two separate days and each day I got two different sets of information. Any suggestions on where to start would be greatly appreciated (from anybody)? I also started to use a pendulum method I had read about but when I asked if it would be okay the pendulum went in a positive swing, when I asked if my name was Mark, it said no, needless to say I didn't attempt the pendulum. I seem to do better with just letting the process begin...maybe I am fighting it too much. Help!

Mark


First of all I would just like to let everyone know I am very new to "Remote Viewing", so if I stray off the subject I would appreciate someone gently pushing me back in the right direction. Thanks!

My question is maybe a bit off the wall but here goes....Is it possible for you as a viewier to be aware of another viewer attempting to view a target at the same time as you are? I say this because when I was attempting "target practice" I had the sense that someone was standing close to me at the site, or what I thought was the site. Was this just my imagination running wild or is this a possibility? Could someone feasibly pick up information about another viewer viewing the same target at the same time and then interact accordingly?

Mark


Hi,

The trick to remote viewing is to "quiet" your mind so that the signal to noise ratio is improved. The usual method of doing this is to use hemi-sync, passive mediation such as TM, or active meditation such as the Silva method. It is generally accepted that the most effective "mind-state" for RVing is the theta brainwave state, but this has been somewhat disproven lately by those RVers who can RV in the wide-awake eyes-open beta state. I did a Monroe Gateway course and a Silva course initially...I found the Silva method the most useful of the two. (But the Gateway program was the most interesting).

Over the years I evolved my own method of inducing the alpha/theta state quickly. I wrote a full "how to" article on this and put it on my web site as a service to the community.

It's at http://malls.com/australian-lateral-thinking/lps.html

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that brain wave frequencies don't necessarily have a great lot to do with RVing...it appears to be more of a change of consciousness state that is important. For example, when a person is hypnotised they do not necessarily have a drop in brain wave frequency....they are in a right brain altered consciousness mind-set. Their left brain has been "put to sleep". As a former stage hypnotist I have seen hundreds of people literally alter their consciousness quickly...sometime almost instantly. I am gaining the impression that this ability...when self-induced.....is really what is needed for RVing. It basically brings up the "lucid dream" state where the target appears as a pristine picture in ones mind...rather than a series of "impressions".

I did a course recently with Angela Thompson...and wrote a review of it. Included in this review is a picture (and results) of a target Angela gave me.

(This review is at http://malls.com/australian-lateral-thinking/athompson.html)

I saw this target as a full-on crystal clear picture rather than a series of impressions. It came out as a hologram in my mind. The vertical height was somewhat distorted and my colours weren't 100% correct, but the overall picture was accurate. However, an interesting thing here. I was being guided (monitored?) by Angela's voice and as a former hypnotist I recognised the onset of a hypnotic state in myself. Even though Angela spoke very little I still had a feeling of "hypnotic guidance". This leads me to further believe that an altered consciousness trance state is vastly more important than merely being able to drop to theta. And I feel that this would probably be more easily arrived at if a guide/monitor were present during training. A sort of master/slave combined consciousness effect, for want of a better term.

I am wondering if the correct mind state couldn't be implanted in a person's mind with the aid of a hypnotist.....as a post-hypnotic suggestion. That is....each time a person activated a "trigger" (such as a specific thought-form plus physical action combined) then their consciousness would change to the required state. It seems to me that this might shortcut a lot of training time and remove the frustration at not being able to achieve early results.

Jim


Palyne,

Excellent remarks, right on the money.At 11:43 AM 4/4/97 -0800, you wrote:

>3. Remote Viewing as defined by me, and this is my email group :-), >is one of two things:.... [quote edited]

Precisely. And in fact, this highlights the shortcoming of Alan's otherwise noble attempt at defining remote viewing. His definition focused on RESULTS; true RV, and especially CRV, focuses on the STRUCTURE of the process. As one of Ingo's students (I believe it may have been Rob Cowart, who was mentioned in Jim Schnabel's book) once said in response to one of Ingo Swann's emphatic lectures about staying in structure, "Structure! Content be damned." Unless an individual is extremely gifted or extremely lucky, focusing on results is bound eventually to lead him/her astray. Such a focus allows analysis to set in, which is likely at any moment to lead one off on a tangent during an RV session. When I teach my students, I use the example of aiming a rifle. Proficient markspersons know that you focus on the sights --particularly the front one--not on the target. If the target is not blurry when you sight your rifle, you are probably going to miss it. If you are focusing on the RV target--what it is, etc., (in other words, the "content" of the signal line) you are also likely to miss.

Paul

[Archive Note: Paul H. Smith, former U.S. Intell RV]


>1. What I was curious about was how one can view events, locations or objects in the future accurately if we consider the feasibility of chaos theory where there a multiple futures possible (and conversely multiple pasts) for a particular event?

Roger, you have hit on exactly the problem with RVing the future, in my opinion. We are not confronted with one set channel along which future time will proceed, but rather a fractal pattern of many different "alternative" futures, any one of which may be actualized when a certain decision node is reached and decided in one of the two or more ways it might be resolved. In my experience, it is possible to do a bang-up, knock-'em dead precognitive RV session which feels exactly as if you were on target, and then it never comes to pass. My theory is that you were RVing a valid alternate future, which had equal reality to all the other possible futures, until some decision node was tripped and that particular future you viewed was "turned off." The interesting aspect to this is that the closer to real time you view, the fewer alternate futures there are and the fewer decision nodes to mess things up--hence, the more accurate your precog viewing will be.

In general, this is why I prefer to avoid precog RV if I can manage it.

<2. If we view an event in the future, and react to it in the present will it change the future, Will that in turn alter the information that was remote-viewed?

Ah, the old temporal loop paradox. And the answer is--who knows! ;-)

Paul

[Archive Note: Paul H. Smith, former U.S. Intell RV]


intro: hi. my name is ed [edited]. i have been trained in crv thru phase/stage 3 by lyn buchanan. i am interested in communicating with other interested people regarding experiences, advice, problems, etc. i look foward to hearing from YOU. describingly (not identifyingly) yours, ed.


Giday

Thanks to all those with advise on the Hemi-sync tapes. I'm going to give the Gateway program a go after I get back from a months holiday in Japan. I shall post my results after I have completed the course as a few seem interested, just as I am now.

Lyn said: <<It has been said in many places, but probably needs to be said again, that CRV and OOBE (astral travel) are completely different things.>>

I understand that CRV and astral travel are not the same but I was under the impression that the major difference was that CRV was, as the name sugests, controlled or scientific in its methods and astral travel was more spontanious and done whilst asleep. But isn't the principle the same? i.e. that we have the ability to be able to leave the body and view/experience distant places etc? Isn't CRV just an advanced forn of astral travel? My reason for asking is in David Morehouse's book "Psycic Warrior" he mentions seeing a silver cord when he was remote viewing.

By the way Lyn, I would also be interested in reading this handout about the terminology. If it is too big for this list could you possibly email it to me direct.

PJ: This list is great! I have learned so much already.

Cheers

Bradford


"Perfect Site Intergration:"

Is this the level of mastery that you would attempt to train all CRV'ers?

In my work I call the Perfect Site Intergration: Permeation. That is the state of "being at one with somewhere, someone or something", this includes ALL perceptics, sight, sound, motion, emotion, its elements, its mass, its energy, its space, its time, its color, its mood, its temperature, its size, etc.

One is both being fully the area and himself at the sametime. It is this perfect site intergration (permeation) that gives the Being the power to create effective holograms. (The virtual reality factor) The perfect site intergration or permeation is the Gold and Green Zone ultimate learning ability. If educational organisations would teach to this standard of learning, you would achieve true education. I apply this principle to all areas I study. Your definitions have helped me achieve this regarding the definitions of the Key Words of your subject.

The clarity of your definitions have allowed me to distinguish the frames of references I have and put CRV as a seperate specific (to be learned) subject. By being able to comprehend what CRV is, I can now see much of what it isn't. A major step forward in the learning process.

Very exciting.

You are a true masterful teacher.

Alan


<<Perfect Site Intergration: Is this the level of mastery that you would attempt to train all CRV'ers?>>

No. I would hope that this is the level of mastery they would all reach, but there are a few reasons why I have to say "no" to that question:

1) I am of the firm opinion that nobody can teach this stuff. I help people learn, I guide them as they learn, I poke them in the ribs when they stop learning (practicing), and I answer their questions when the process runs them headlong into an opportunity to learn something new. But when students master a new level, the credit is theirs. They worked hard to get there, and without that work, they wouldn't have gotten there at all.

2) The "PSI condition" (Perfect Site Integration) is one which transfixes the viewer. They experience the site just exactly as though they were there. That means that, in order to get a report of it, you have to wait until they "get back". Then all you get is a summary. The trick in CRV is to take the viewer as close to the "PSI condition" as possible, without letting them get sucked all the way into it. Remember that it is a small, self-contained virtual reality. Once they buy into it totally, the information collection goes on hold.

3) As far as I can tell, a "level of mastery" isn't involved in the PSI condition. It is a thing which happens to CRVers very rarely. Even the act of trying to make it happen is enough grounding to keep it from happening. It is a fantastic experience and I personally live for it. But it has only happened to me about 8 times now, in the almost 15 years I've been doing CRV work. It seems to happen when you are so intent on the target that you don't stop it from happening. (To quote a very bad pun, "Shhhh! It happens!")

<<One is both being fully the area and himself at the same time.

Then that is different from the PSI condition. In the PSI condition, you are, as far as your entire being is concerned, there. You are not here any longer. If, at the site, you try to fly, you can't. You walk just like you would anywhere else. You don't go through walls, you don't see, sense, or do anything differently. The only thing I have ever noticed about a PSI condition which is in any way different from real life is that people at the site don't seem to hear or see me. Otherwise, the sun on my face feels the same. The wind feels and smells the same, everything else is the same as actually being there. Your physical body is here, but your mind is so wrapped up in the mental VR that you aren't even aware that there is a "here" to be at. You'd really have to experience this to truely know what I'm talking about. It is not a feeling or a perception, no matter how strong. It is as real as daily life.

<<It is this perfect site intergration (permeation) that gives the Being the power to create effective holograms. (The virtual reality factor) The perfect site intergration or permeation is the Gold and Green Zone ultimate learning ability.>>

I'm afraid we might need to get a copy of your terminology manual, too. I don't understand these terms. Could you elucidate further?

<<By being able to comprehend what CRV is, I can now see much of what it isn't. A major step forward in the learning process.>>

Very wise insight. There is a lot that CRV isn't. Probably more than it is. This mail list is for the learning - for us all to learn. I'm looking forward to hearing more of your insights.

<<Very exciting. You are a true masterful teacher.>>

Thanks. Looking backward at all I've learned makes me feel like some kind of a black-belt master. It has been hard and taken a lot of work. But looking back doesn't do any good. When I look forward, I see the distant hope that someday I may graduate from Kindergarten.

Lyn Buchanan

[Archive Note: Lyn Buchanan, former U.S. Intell RV]


Intro Name: Mike [edited]
Location: Pine, Arizona, USA
Occupation(s): physical therapist, cranial sacral therapist, healing touch practitioner, screenprinter
Interest: CRV as a tool for self development, cranial sacral therapy/healing touch therapy as a possible means of facilitating CRV (both of these can facilitate altered states of consciousness) and occasionally clients report OBE both cranial sacral therapy and healing touch are subtle forms of hands on therapy that address the human energy field and the dural membrane /fascial system (cranial sacral therapy) CRV as a vehicle for 'remote healing' Thanks to you all!

Mike


Giday

I think I'm getting the picture. So CRV is the intellect or conscious mind obtaining signals or messages from the subconscious, whilst the mind is in a theta state, that were received by the subconscious from the ether? And PSI is therefore when your intellect has total concentration on that "channel"? As apposed to astral travelling which I think is your "spirt" or "astral body" actually leaving your physical body and "travelling" to wherever. Maybe.

I spose none of us really know what this is all about exactly but as long as we keep asking questions, keep getting more people involved, then eventually the answers will unfold. Like you say, Lyn, this is just the Kindergarten of Humankinds real education. I'm starting to believe that we are witnessing the next step in our evolution. And pioneers such as yourselfs, Lyn and Paul, and Hal Puthoff, and Ingo Swann ect will earn a very important part in History. Sorry if I'm getting off the track a bit, PJ, but I think the implications of CRV are Earth shattering. The truth really is "out there" or even "in here"! :-)

See ya

Bradford


First, thank you for bringing together such an interesting group of people. My name is Ana. I'm from Barcelona, Spain and I live in the US. Since childhood I have experienced "unexplained" phenomena. In 1979 I was eighteen and I was confronted with a conscious episode having to do with other "beings". Only many years later, after I came to this country, I heard people starting to talk about these things. Up to that point, I had only talked about it to those very close to me. Also since adolescence I started experiencing spontaneous and sudden "trips" to other realities or places. Mostly I have fought these very frequent and very intense experiences because it feels as if I have no say-so in the matter. My entire being is pulled or sucked into this and at times, the more I resist it, the stronger this tag of wills becomes. I haven't found yet an explanation that satisfies me as to why this is happening. Needless to say, I would like to have control over this, at times, very disturbing process. Remote viewing seems to offer this as well as hope for the creation a higher quality of human being. I would like to contribute to the unfolding of a new consciousness.

Nice to be here.


PJ,

I really enjoyed your article on RV and Heaven's Gate. Thanks for the further insights and the RV defense. If any body is interested, it is at http://www.firedocs.com/remoteviewing/ under "mixin' it up!"

vic

[PJ's note: The current version of firedocs has it in two places: on the media/politics page, as "39 Ways..." and in fire's personal archives.]


PJ,

Excellent articles.

It does appear that some very irresponsible people are giving RV a false image.

Any group can be labelled a Cult, as that is what a group is.

It cannot be fought or denied, therefore it must be well handled. The distinction is - is this a destructive Cult, or is it an enhancing Cult?

I wrote the following bulletin, feel free to use any part of it.

Alan

[I deleted the accompanying very good and interesting article about cults to preserve space, and because it is not about CRV. If you are interested in viewing this article, please email me and I will ask the author to forward it to you. - PJ, Editor.]


>>1. What I was curious about was how one can view events, locations or objects in the future accurately if we consider the feasibility of chaos theory where there a multiple futures possible (and conversely multiple pasts) for a particular event?

I like to liken viewing the future to a bug sitting on the surface of a pond. Let's say you are that bug, and as you sit there, you see another bug across the pond, sitting idly by a rock. You think that it would make a fine meal, so you suddenly start skittering across the pond toward it. In the process, the wake which goes before you scares the other bug away. When you get there, there is no bug to eat... just the rock and the water. Does that mean that you were wrong earlier? Of course not. Does it mean that there was no bug there when you viewed it? But there was.

In like manner, I think it is most probable that the actions we take from viewing the future will change it to something it wasn't before. In fact, I suspect that the very act of remote viewing the future has some altering affect on it. In other words, "The future's not what it used to be."

So this takes us into other questions, as well. If you see something in the future you don't like, can you change it? Well, why not. The big question here is whether or not you can so conduct your actions that those things which you like in the future, you won't "scare away", and those things you don't like, you will "scare away". Back to you as the bug: Did your personal future change through the actions you took to ensure it? Well... the "other bug" part of it did. There was nothing you could do to scare away the rock, though, so that didn't change. In other words, there are some things in the future which can be affected, and some which are going to be, no matter what you do about them. The trick is to sneak slyly and wisely into the future, and try not to crash against the rocks.

>>2. If we view an event in the future, and react to it in the present will it change the future?

See above.

>>Will that in turn alter the information that was remote-viewed?

Great question!!! There is a problem which remote viewers face which is called, "paradoxical tasking". Another analogy best illustrates it:

Let's say that you are tasked to give the police the location of a criminal so they can arrest him. They will have a squad ready this evening, and want to know where the criminal will be a 9PM.

You do your session and tell them that the criminal will be a Joe's Bar & Grill at 9PM. The police go out at 8:30 and hide in the bushes to wait. At 8:40, the criminal walks up to the bar, but before he enters, the police jump out and arrest him. At 9PM, he is in a jail cell.

The police are happy about this and patting you on the back for your good work. You are happy because the criminal got caught. Anyone affected by the criminal is happy to see him caught. But your subconscious mind is highly P&*@ed. Actions were taken to make it's predictions wrong. OK, so what if it had shown you that the criminal would be in jail at 9PM? Then, the police would not have gone out, and at 9PM, the criminal would have been in Joe's Bar & Grill, sipping beer. You see, either way, your subconcious mind would wind up being wrong. It has a right to be ticked off.

Strangely enough, the answer to this problem doesn't come in a different mode of viewing, or by simply accepting the problem. The answer to the problem of "paradoxical TASKING" comes in simply giving the viewer the task in a manner which isn't paradoxical in nature. If the tasking had been something as simple as, "Describe the place where the police should go this evening to arrest the criminal", then the whole problem would be solved. I teach several courses in CRV management, and this is one of the things dealt with in each of those courses.

The question you asked about will viewing the future change it, and if so, will that in turn change the viewing (which in turn changes the future differently), etc. is a situation which is very destructive to the viewer. With something as simple as proper (and smart) tasking, the problem doesn't need to happen.

Good questions!

Lyn Buchanan

[Archive Note: Lyn Buchanan, former U.S. Intell RV]


<<Question for Palyne and Lyn: Have you ever "burned out" from too many sessions?>>

Absolutely. I once did 8 sessions in a single day (crisis time), and still don't remember the following week. There was another time when I was trying a PK experiment. I had built a device which had a moving part with virtually no friction, and I was trying to make it turn first one way, then the other. After about a week, I finally got to where I could make it move on command (but just a little). I thought, "work harder and you'll do better!" Bad thought. At one point, I realized that I had burned out, and have have very little success at it since. That was years ago.

Ingo says, "Always quit on a high." I agree. It is the best reward your subconscious can get. If you continue working, just because you had a good session or two, and only quit when you start to fail, then you haven't given your subconscious a very good reward. You have basically said to it, "Gave out, huh? Well! So much for you! I'll go do something else, now."

When you have a really bang-up session, you might make it a policy to give yourself an extra day, week, or whatever before doing another session. You'll come into the session "chomping at the bit". The end result is that you get better and better.

<<Lyn taught us Associative Remote Viewing. I tried it with two Pick Three Lotteries [three 0-9] and got two out of three twice [one session with correct order as well as number]. We got excited and tried the "big time" . . . the SuperLotto [six 1-51]. I did six sessions, one after the other: the first session was spot on [clear description of the object representing the first Lotto number]. After that, every number was off, and I experienced higher than normal anxiety while in session.

(engage chastizing circuits!) Ahem!!! Excuse me? I seem to remember warning you about two things: 1) When you start to do the lotteries, it is important to get a separate viewer for each number and an extra person to coordinate (4 people for the pick-3, 5 people for the pick-4, etc.) and 2) Be patient. Everyone tries to do the biggies first. Nobody wants to work slowly up to it. Make yourself a deal: if you win 5 pick-3s, you will reward yourself by trying a pick-4 (while at the same time going on with your pick-3 work). Once you have won the pick-4 5 times, you will try the pick-6. Once you.... well, you only need to win it once, anyway. BTW: It's easy for me to give the above advice, having been through the same thing (I wasn't patient, either - nobody ever is).

<<Before these experiments, I was cranking along with my CRV practice targets, as pleased as pie with my sessions. Since these experiments, I felt like I've burnt my fingers: I've developed a sort of dread of doing a session, though I've kept up with daily ideogram training, even practiced P2 and P3 structure while looking at old targets. Ever encounter this problem before? - Bill

Yes. What you do now is just back off for a while. Stop the ideogram drills, (don't quit the vocabulary or the other drills, though). If you do any CRV, work on theory for a while. Reading about other people's sessions and experiences will get you to wanting to have your own experiences again. If you just continue to hammer at it, you'll only wind up hurting yourself.

And BTW: (reengage chastizing circuits!) you know that the course includes all the counseling, advice, help, etc. afterwards, so when you have a question email or call. (I know - I'm always busy.) But what I want people to do is become GOOD viewers. That job takes precidence over all the other things I have to do. Hopefully, this list will help. It would also help if you post some of the things you've learned, in order to help others.

Thanks for the question. Let me know when you're ready to start practicing again (in a month or so?). In the meantime, this mail list will let you see what others are doing and keep you mentally involved in the process while you get over the burnout.

Lyn Buchanan

[Archive Note: Lyn Buchanan, former U.S. Intell RV]


<<I think I'm getting the picture. So CRV is the intellect or conscious mind obtaining signals or messages from the subconscious, whilst the mind is in a theta state, that were received by the subconscious from the ether?>>

You're getting closer. In CRV, the conscious mind does not start out by concentrating on the signals from the subconscious. If we could do that, there wouldn't be any mystery or difficulty. Our whole problem is that the conscious and subconscious don't talk to each other in the first place. In the beginning of CRV, you concentrate your conscious attention on the body. In the earliest stages, it is just your writing hand. As you advance more, you pay attention to what you "hear", "see", etc. (all functions of perceptions which normally depend on body parts). The difference between CRV and other disciplines is that in your training, you teach the BODY to stop receiving perceptions from physical organs and start receiving input from the subconscious. You pay conscious attention to your BODY, which is in turn getting more and more of its impressions from the subconscious.

I know that you'll balk at this, because there is such a tremendous push to believe that all this depends on the theta state. In CRV, it doesn't. We had a congressional representative come by once and his comments after watching a session were that he was terribly underwhelmed. He had expected to see people going into trance, or even "chilling down" to a dream-like theta state. What he saw was, as he described it, "two guys sitting at a table, smoking and joking, and now and then one of them writes something down."

This is probably best shown by an analogy (whose principle purpose is to show STRAY CATs, but it also explain why, for some people doing CRV, this "cool down" or "theta state" is probably the worst thing they could do.)

-------------------------------

For this analogy, let's suppose that you are the CEO of a large organization. You have worked hard for years to get that position, and you are proud of having it. One day, the owners of the organization come in and tell you that they have a younger person who they want to have "experience running the company" - but just for a week - your job is certainly not in danger. Your reaction is one of wanting above all else to see this young upstart fail.

They then bring the "newbie" in, and to your surprise, it is your daughter. Now, you have mixed emotions. You don't want her to fail in any way, but at the same time, you don't want her to outshine you, either. Either way, her performance is a direct reflection on you.

The week will be filled with you mingling into everything she does, "helping" where you can, and now and then holding her back. Most of the week, you'll try to do things for her instead of letting her do things herself.

That is the situation which happens with remote viewing. Your conscious mind, which has worked hard to get you where you are, is asked to give up its position for some young upstart, which just happens to be the other "you", about which it cares very dearly. Its performance will be a direct reflection on you. Therefore, the conscious mind decides that it had better help all it can. It will reason and analyze and jump in every chance it gets, either trying to help, or trying to hold you back a little - after all, you are just a young upstart.

In the analogy, the week ends one of two ways: the daughter says to you, "I failed this week - because you wouldn't let ME do the work." or else the daughter says to you, "I succeeded this week - but only because you wouldn't let ME do the work." Either way, you lose. The same is true in remote viewing. If the conscious mind helps at all, you fail.

So what is the answer to this problem? Most people will say, "Give the old man a vacation! - Get him out of the way. Zone the conscious mind out so it can't participate." The problem is (back to the analogy, here) that the old man spends his whole vacation surrepticiously calling back in to the suboffices and undersecretaries to find out what's going on. Just keeping tabs, you understand.

The process of CRV has another solution. In CRV, you give the old man a new job - one which, if he is to do it well, will keep him so busy that he doesn't have time to interfere with the new kid. In the final analysis, the protocols of CRV serve many purposes, but this may just be the greatest of them. Your conscious mind stays so busy working the protocols that the subconscious mind is free to do it's own thing.

--------------------------------------------

So the fact is that CRV does NOT depend on your ability to get into the theta state. In fact, many people (I'm one of them) have a miserable time with CRV if they "chill down" first. For me, the database shows that I get my best results when I line up a busy day, plan the jobs, include the session as one of them, and then start down the checklist, doing all I have to do that day in quick succession. (For example) answer email, mow the lawn, do a session, wash the car, take out the trash, write some on the book, etc. etc. etc.

<<And PSI is therefore when your intellect has total concentration on that "channel"?

No. When your "physical mind" has total concentration on that channel. That's when you can physically feel, see, and otherwise sense the site. Small distinction, but a very important one in practice. It is also one reason why you can't just go out and learn CRV in a few days or a week of classes. It takes a very new and different form of physical training, as well as mental. Ask anyone in the martial arts... that can take years.

<<.... As apposed to astral travelling which I think is your "spirt" or "astral body" actually leaving your physical body and "travelling" to wherever. Maybe.

Yes.

<<Sorry if I'm getting off the track a bit, PJ, but I think the implications of CRV are Earth shattering. The truth really is "out there" or even "in here"! :-)

I feel that the implications are, too. I'm not so much worried about earning a place in history, I just want to make certain as possible that Humanity will have one, and that it will be a better one than we've had so far.

Thanks for the dialogue.

Lyn Buchanan

[Archive Note: Lyn Buchanan, former U.S. Intell RV]


Hi Viewers,

Bob said, <<...many references have been made to commercial sources of study. Hate to sound cheap...but I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like an idea of the cost(s) involved (without having to inquire of the source). Has nothing to do with commitment.>>

I agree. I can refer you to web sites that have the run-down on what people charge, what you get for it, what's required, etc. It has always been my experience that legitimate people will post their details publicly... when someone insists you call/go in/provide your own name in some form before they'll tell you, you're best to avoid 'em.

But this is a good post-place to point a few related things out.

As of today, April 8, 1997:

The number of actual remote Viewers in the Army intelligence unit that utilized this--the one so publicized--was very small. Of those, many are still private operatives, or otherwise private in some other job. Of what's left, only two teach, plus one Monitor from the program who also teaches. No kidding. Talk about an exclusive club. [Paul Smith was in the unit for 7 years; Lyn Buchanan in the unit for just under 9 years; Ed Dames was in the unit just over 2 years.]

Now, there have been various people training with this for years, but many did it for reasons to do with their career (e.g., they're FBI, CIA, DEA, other military, et al) -- none that I know of are actually teaching the public.

The other side of the subject is the science side. Many of the scientists and subjects also experimented with CRV, however, the main bulk of what was done, was done by people generally using "ERV" (a later term now applied to a mostly unstructured methodology, to differentiate it from CRV), and none of them that I know of offer training anyway. I do know of one woman who trained with physicist Russell Targ as part of a study, back in the early 1980's, who now occasionally trains in a personalized combination of early-phase CRV, hypnosis, etc. She's in Canada, I'll see if she's got a web site up that might have that info. And there is another researcher who trains in another personalized combination of 'TRV', OBE (out of body work), shamanic work, etc. (I don't know the details of her own training in TRV.)

Then we have the commercial side of things (which may or may not include any of the above). There are a simply huge number of people who have decided that they know everything there is to know about remote viewing, and offer training for various amounts of money. I have yet to see ONE person who had the first clue about what it really was other than people who formally trained in it. Just about everybody had their own spiritual ideas they were "sure were the same thing," were fond of the idea of (a) being part of something with a great "science and military" reputation, and (b) of making money off it.

A surprising number of the above commercial people claim to have been part of the military intelligence program, et al. I regularly send out email to a few of those military people saying, "Who is this?" and regularly get back, "There were only a few people in the unit, I knew all of them, and he wasn't there." So, there you go, you can't just believe everybody claiming to be an expert.

Then there's the training environment. There is one-on-one training, which is the most expensive but probably the best of course, available from Paul Smith (CRV) and Lyn Buchanan (CRV). There is small-group training (ranging from two to 15 people) available from Lyn Buchanan (CRV) and Paul Smith (CRV) and Ed Dames (TRV) and Courtney Brown (SRV), as well as the two research women mentioned above, who teach some degree of one of the above as part of a conglomerate program of their own.

Every instructor and class has its own inclusions, such as, how long each course is, what kind of follow up you're given, how much Monitors have to pay to train with you, what kind of opportunities they have for using the skills in the real world, etc. There is also the issue of what all classes are available, i.e., some people just teach Viewing, other people teach Viewer team management and monitoring, or offer personalized courses, etc. There is also the issue of what all you have to take before your instructor considers you "done with the Viewer part of training," which can often run into far more money than the first course alone. There is also the issue of what you would need to do to get your instructor's approval to use his/her name to offer training yourself (which can run into cost, for instance with Courtney, or required experience-time, for instance with Paul and Lyn). You'd have to check out the web page details for each of the people to get this info.

Lastly, there's the issue of the requirements. Some instructors have formal applications (Ed Dames does for instance), that want to know what you've done already, what your education and/or belief systems are, your reasons for taking training, ad nauseum. Others don't care what your reasons are, as long as you're a reasonably intelligent adult who doesn't have "dark side/evil" fears or intentions (money, btw, is NOT a sin <grin>); they might be personally interested in your reasons but it wouldn't affect whether or not you got training or were told classes were "all full." Some instructors will tell you that if you're not willing to put in a certain amount of personal practice so you know what you're doing, don't bother; others are just happy to have you join their course and don't care much. Some of this will be right up front on their web site; I know Buchanan's site for instance has a great deal of info in the training section (Paul only recently retired from the military, and he yet hasn't had the time to get into a whole term paper about it, but he's got useful info on his site as well).

Most instructors have some kind of "caveat" legal form that you have to sign that in effect will say, if you experience any psychological-mental problems that seem to stem from training, it is not their responsibility (just in case some student turns out to be borderline insane or something, and getting in touch with their subconscious is the final straw). Many also have something to sign saying that you agree not to teach until you have fulfilled that instructor's requirements for doing so, and/or that you can't use their name in any promotion of your teaching until that's fulfilled.

Oh yeah. And then there's the issue of where they ARE. Some instructors you have to go them to train with, which means you've got plane fare, and from 3-12 days of hotel and cost, which can easily double the cost, plus the time you'd take off work of course, which for some people just isn't workable. Some instructors travel around the USA or world to major cities offering training, so they might be near you, or near family you might go visit or something. Some instructors merely offer courses and you fit in what you can; others offer priority to any student who has begun training with them, to make sure you can finish the training.

In any case, the web pages of these people will give you information on pricing and other details.

People often ask me who I recommend. I recommend Lyn Buchanan and Paul Smith. They are the only people teaching CRV, which is my personal interest, and which is quite different than the many things which others feel are the same thing, and these guys are (alas) the only people with real experience in it. Whether other forms of training are better or worse, I don't know -- I haven't taken them, so I have no idea, and that's up to you to decide. I'm sure they all have merit. I wish there were more options, and I do everything I can to support these guys because I want to be able to expand the student and teacher base of this subject, so that getting training is easier for people, and so more people can learn it. Remember that this wasn't declassified until November 1995, and there were only a few people directly (formally) using it even prior to that, so there just hasn't been time to get many people trained to the point of being good instructors yet. In a way though, that means this is the ground floor of the field, and it has plenty of growth ahead, and that's kind of an exciting thing.

Military / CRV

Paul Smith has a web page at: http://www.rviewer.com/

Lyn Buchanan has a web page at: http://www.crviewer.com/

Military / Other

Ed Dames (TRV) has a web page at: http://www.transition-3000.de/ and http://www.trv-psitech.com/

Research

Angela Thompson (ERV/OBE) has a web page at: [formerly innervision, site now closed - archivists note]

Other

Courtney Brown (SRV) has a web page at: http://www.farsight.org/

----------

Now that THAT part is out of the way, there is also group training offered. Angela Thompson and Jim Francis have put together an "RV 101" course on book, audio, video, et al, that they'll be selling from their web sites. This is not CRV, but it might be interesting from other perspectives. Courtney Brown (SRV) is said to be offering his training manual for sale, but I don't have details on that. [Later note: his basic manual is online at his web site.] Joe McMoneagle (ERV) has a book called "MIND TREK" that offers quite a bit of pointers on his style of remote viewing -- wait a couple weeks and the latest revised version will be on the shelves, and that'll include some great information about the military program, "RV mythology," etc., it's worth reading. Ed Dames (TRV) is offering videotapes of his training; [see his web site].

As to whether or not CRV (controlled remote viewing, the point of this email list) can be trained in any form but personally -- I don't know. From my experience in CRV training, I can tell you that a substantial portion of it was personalized, was about how my subconscious personally dealt with the CRV structure. I think this would work okay in small groups as well, but the bottom line is, it probably depends on the person, and on the instructor, and on the training situation itself.

When I was first exposed to the structure I was kind of disappointed and I thought (1) "I'm supposed to give you psychic data? I thought you were supposed to teach me how to get it! I'm not psychic!" .... practice demonstrated me wrong about that. (2) "This seems so silly -- this is not at all what I expected." ... practice demonstrated the point behind it, the reason for it, and that it was FAR more effective than I realized (and that the small details of structure were far more important as well).

I'm a little bit concerned that without an instructor to make them stick to it, practice it some, to see how they're doing and work with them on their personal take on things, that a lot of people may, for instance, buy a TRV videotape but then be completely underwhelmed, sure they know all about it from watching a 2 hour video, and just be disappointed that it isn't some cosmic thing and they're not going to be "100%" accurate and that they probably will seldom SEE anything -- everybody seems to think this is like "remote videotape" or something! -- and not learn anything. If I hadn't been all the way across the country and out money for it, I don't know that I would have stuck with it long enough to see how good it was. That's what concerns me about non-personal training. However, for people who are either disciplined enough to stick with it, or naturally talented enough to see the results right off the bat, I think that form of training might work.

It's up to you. If you encounter any problems or questions with the instructors or web sites mentioned above, let me know, perhaps I can help, or find out more for you.

I'm sending a copy of this to all of the above instructors as well. I want them to know that while not all of them teach CRV, which is my own interest, I recognize their work and its potential value; some methods have much in common with CRV. All students are welcome on this email list if they're interested. Education and friendly interaction are the main goals here.

PJ


It has come to my attention (my thanks to Angela Thompson) that I provided the wrong toll-free phone number for Schnabel's book. Two numbers were written on the same scrap of paper, and I picked off the wrong one. The correct number is 800-323-9872. They don't take credit cards, alas. However, they do give instructions on how you can order the book, at a cost (including postage) or around the $6 cover price.

Paul

[Archive Note: Paul H. Smith, former U.S. Intell RV]


Couple things I got wrong on my first post I wanted to correct.

....

Second, Angela Thompson teaches extended remote viewing, including a version of coordinate remote viewing, associative remote viewing, and other forms. While it's not CRV, it does cover a number of other worthwhile techniques. She does NOT teach OBE, sorry, I was confused by some things I read but I'm glad she clarified that for me!

(Here all this time I've been clueless. Now this is worse of me than you'd think, given that I'm her webmaster and I've read everything she's got up there. Both of my brain cells must have been busy counting each other or something!)

PJ


Have received both CRV (Lyn) and TRV (Ed) training. (over $10k invested)

Have attended PA conf in San Diego and Met.... Ed May, Russell Targ, Charles Tart, Gertrude Schmeidler, Joe McMoneagle, Jessica Utts, Dean Radin, etc and spoke of Remote Viewing with them.

I have interest in both talent discovery (CRV itself) AND talent enhancements. Have been utilizing light/sound products along with EEG and brainwave entrainment techniques for session prep (cool down). These include Skip's TMI tapes, as well as other hemisynch low frequency techniques.

Something must be working, 'cause I feel my skill developing faster now that I've included aids. Do you have comments in this regard????

Thx, [David]


END ARCHIVE 02
APRIL 01 1997 TO APRIL 10 1997

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