firedocs archives

Public Viewer Email Group
Archive 018
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This is an archive file of the public Viewer [VWR] email list. This list is sponsored by the private Viewer Forum, hosted by Paradigm Systems and Design, and owned and operated by PJ Gaenir. It is dedicated to discussion of the practical aspects, theories and experience of formal psychic methodologies such as Controlled Remote Viewing, and independent efforts by the public interested in working under the formal RV protocol (the set of rules which define "remote viewing" as the term was coined in a science lab). You can find details, rules, and a form for joining the email group here. The list is moderated during operation and archiving. I remove last names and detail locations of contributors (within the archives) for privacy, and signatures for space conservation. I have added notes marking the posts from former U.S. intelligence remote viewers. Archiving of posts is done manually and may not include all posts.

This is the eighteenth archive.


AUGUST 04 1997 TO AUGUST 21 1997
BEGIN ARCHIVE 18

HI,  

You stated you interested in Robert Monroe, so assume you have read his books.  The Hemi-Sync and out of  body? Well....this is my point of view, OBEs are between you and yourself,  as with what and how you choose to come into this point of view. For your 'exploring' , you can get a Monroe catalog and try a Metamusic tape,  they are cool, (I have a bunch, I love Gaia) also I think it's called, the PAL Executive Pack, it's 6 tapes, inexpensive, and for me it was a good intro to Hemi-Sync. Have fun

~Terri~


HI,  ok...this my point of view...I am just a regular type person, trying to find 'my cup of tea', and have fun. The method I was taught at Monroe?....Idont't know about method.The Hemi-Sync sound I just use in my own way. You develop you own method, I think. You just put on a tape and go. I do tho, like the guidance when you do a Monroe pgm. I tend to jump into something at full speed, and pick up the pieces later.


Hi, Charles,

I'm a graduate of the Gateway course at Monroe, Sept, 1996. At Monroe they make it very clear that Gateway is just that: an introduction to higher states of functioning, and OBE's are neither guaranteed nor a focus of the course. I wouldn't trade my Gateway experience for anything, and I have to say it opened up a whole bunch of new stuff for me and expanded my RV abilities exponentially. In fact, I didn't want to be OB anyway because when you are away from the body you can't report to someone "here" what you're seeing. I'd rather stay in the body and let the mind do the walking, so to speak. As John mentioned, it does take practice. Don't be in a hurry. Let it unfold. I also feel to say that it would be good to be very broad in outlook, rather than focus on one thing.

Last but not least, remember that Joe McMoneagle says that to the extent you are willing to give up every concept you had about how the universe operates, to that degree exactly you can be a good remote viewer. Every one of the top people I've talked to has agreed with that, and I do too. If I decide how it's going to work, I'm already stuck in a box.

Best wishes

Nancy A


With the sun up at 5:00 and down at 10:30, and with all the beautiful weather, I find myself having very little time to practice.  I'll have to wait until winter before I have lots of time again.

BTW, RVing is supposed to work better at 1330 +/- 1 hour Local Sidereal Time, which, this time of year is between 7:00PM and 10:00PM, depending on the day.  If that's when you do your practice, then you will likely have better results do to that alone, never mind the relaxing warmth of the summer rays!

Enjoy your summers!!  We had our first frost this morning.  :-(

Mike CT


Terri!

I just go and look also, but when I have a person or situation to scan, I do the Monroe prep process before going: Energy Conversion box, resonant tuning, energy balloon and affirmation, then jump to 10, 12, 15, sometimes 21. This seems to clear away distractions and I can just flow with the information. I do see as well as hear and perceive, and can often describe in some detail. My abilities seem to be for the bodymind and also if someone is under attack I can often find the cause. Like you, I'm usually right, but if I'm not it isn't the end of the world. Fatigue seems to cramp my style. I loved Monroe.

Nancy


Dear Ms. C.,

I am not a Remote Viewer in this sort.  I am a psychic and I can attest that through my research, that what has been termed by the New Age Junkies as Psychic Attacks can and do happen.  The pressure to your sixth Chakra is one sign that someone is trying to connect with you.  It is not always a technique used for harm.  The other aspect (and perhaps I should keep my mouth shut, but won't), is that this type of probing and "Resonance Matching" to read (perceive) or to obtain information is usually not an intention to harm, even if it is an invasion of privacy. Believe me there are enough techniques out there that are designed and quite capable of creating harm.

In any group of people there are unscrupulous people,exercising certain Psy skills are not always an indication of proper ethics.  However, I have to also say that the sensation that you described is also indicative of other things as well.  Many times, a persons sixth Chakra will open very wide and feel like this naturally without any outside influence at all.  After all your energy system is active and not just passively waiting for you to decide.  Another reason can be that during you sleep, you just noticed the sensation of your sixth being there due to the brainwave level ytou were in and the lack of outside stimulation which tends to bury energetic perception.  I would more worried about an invassion of the 4th. Chakra than I would a small probe of the sixth. This will feel like your chest is vibrating and radiating very heavily. The feeling is very distinct and very strong.  There is no subtlety in this technique at all.

To think about protection is easy.  Don't look for energetic problems or you will definately find them.  Second, close down your 7 main chakras to about 1% and work on running energy often cleaning your system out on a regular basis.  Shield only when necessary with a Thought Form.  Many time people will effect you without intending to.  They have the greatest good in mind and just not realizing that they are impacting your system.  But because you are the center of focus, you get hit...even in a loving intent.

Hope it helps.

Rob


In a message dated 8/15/97 3:18:17 PM, Ms C wrote about an experience with what sounds like a psychic charlatan with some ability and no integrity, and said:

<<everyone should be taught how to protect themselves from this type of invasion.>>

As someone who is sensitive to invasion, I wholeheartedly concur. If anyone wants a copy of my paper on the subject, please address me privately at RemoteVwr@aol.com and put MIRRORS in the subject line. There are a lot of protection things out there and I think mine is among the best. You can revise it to your own needs of course.

PJ, if you want me to post it to the list, I will.

I also, Ms.C., have native ability. I also influence remotely but I do so only (a) with permission and (b) for healing. The only exception to this is when I or someone I work with is under psychic attack, and then only for defense, as to disarm the attacker, never for harm. I was taught in the 60's that to do otherwise would cost me dearly in terms of shutdown of perceptual as well as healing ability, and I have never tested it, being willing to take that on faith, so to speak.

Nancy


Hiya all

I was reading one of the archives that PJ transcibed(?) and noticed a question that Lyn B. answered.  It was about a fellow who had gotten terribly bored with viewing his feed back.

My question is what is meant by viewing feed back and how did it become such a mundane task for this fellow.

Thanks all.  Hope this helps others too!

John


G'day all,

I would like everyone's help with something... I have been 'volintered' to teach a VERY basic form of RV for a class talk, later this year. So I have decided to use Anglea Thompson's ERV Method as a basic foundation for the class it should be the easiest for them to grasp....

Anyways I have decided to get the class to try to RV something in 1974 and I was wondering is there any meathod of 'convincing' the class to RV that point in space-time without having to actually say it.??? My reason for not wishing to say the time or place is so no one uses their analyitical mind, so it may work for them...

Thanking you, any help would be greatly recieved:)

HAMMER :)


Hi

I may have a few suggestions.  When I teach RV I use Custer's last stand as one of the sites.  Lots of EI and AI!!! If I use 25 June 1876, as part of the coordinates it front loads the system and I get a lot of AOL.  I have them view the Valley of the Little Big Horn as it is today.  Then I do a movement exercise and have them move to a time approximately 120 years earlier. The impact of the battle draws them to the correct time.  This works for CRV or ERV. Of course you may not want your students to do a movement exercise the first time they try to RV.

A second option is to use an envelope with the feedback in the envelope. The viewer may try and view the feedback, but even if he/she (politically correct) does, you have still demonstrated RV works.

A third option is to asign a random number to the event in time and use that number as the cue. As long as you are positive that number is the event and the students know you are sure it will work.

A word here about the "first time effect."  Both Ingo and Hal were sure that the first RV session a person ever attempted was much more successful than the next several sessions.  Ingo had a theory for this, which I will not put down here because I do not want to try and steal his thunder.

Hope this helps.

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: "Liam," former U.S. Intell RV]


On the bright side Simon, doing the same target with a whole roomful of people will probably create such massive overlay (physiologically as well) that regardless of how many "details" are gotten correctly, it's pretty sure the general gestalts will be okay, and that it will be "an experience" for them as opposed to just "a session." :-)

PJ


Hiya Simon,

I only thought about this for a few minutes so you might want to refine it a bit.  But what I would consider is describing what a target is a explaining how it works, then tell the students that they are going to do a target, then cue them with "Go to the target and describe" or something like that.

I hope that helps a little bit.

Soon to be a fellow viewer

John K


Hi RViewers,

I want to say hello to everyone on the site and let you know that I'm learning from your comments. I'm new to RV, having only encountered it for the first time about 8 weeks ago. I did my first trial run on August 2 with one of Lyn Buchanan's targets. What happened may be a bit amusing. Just before the session, I was chasing a mouse around the house, having visions of it chewing the wiring and setting the place ablaze. Well, the target, a transient, popped into my mind. Those of you who have tried Lyn's March targets will know exactly what one it was that popped into view! I not only dismissed it but said some uncomplimentary words to my psyche about getting down to real business! Needless to say, the rest of the session produced nothing.

The following morning in hypnagogia, I thought I was seeing a framed picture with blue and grey colours and by the next day, to prove myself really crazy, I thought I could call it as a picture of the famous painting 'The Blue Boy'. You can imagine my surprise when I got the feedback! However, I think my psyche had a message. He was saying that he felt treated like a little 'boy' and was feeling rather 'blue' about it all after having done such a fine job of taking me right to the target on the first crack! I've since tried one other target but the feedback indicates I need to do a lot of work on differentiating the real thing from imagination.

As Liam wrote yesterday (Aug 18), maybe I'm experiencing 'first time effect'. I've been led to believe the target will be transitory in nature and not memory-dominant like imagination. However, in another light, I was up against a more complex target. Just as some sports like figure skating use 'degree of difficulty' ratings, maybe it would be a good idea to develop something similar for practice targets that are put on the web. By way of example, if I'm a rank beginner going up against targets that would be 'intermediate' level, and getting poor results, I'm less likely to get discouraged if I know the targets are going to really challenge my present RV ability. Maybe a few of you would agree or have reason to differ with this? I would also welcome any hints you might have on differentiating targets from what is one very 'over-active' imagination.

2.   I would like to meet/talk with other RVers living in or near the Eastern Ontario area. If there's an opportunity to become a member of an existing RV group, or to help form one, I'm open to talking about it. RVers headed for Canada and visiting the Ottawa area, are invited to call/get in contact (address/tel number below).

3.   From all the information I have picked up on RV, it seems that there is a premium to be placed on learning it right the first time around. The big draw-back is the high cost of training. With all of the potential uses of RV, one would think that finding a sponsor, would be possible. My present employer has no discernable interest in training me, so if anyone has comments, thoughts or suggestions on finding a backer, let me know!

William M.


Hi RViewers,

I have always held the opinion that the human race is really self- centered to believe that it is the only intelligent civilization in the universe. With an estimated 300 billion stars in our own galaxy alone, and other life likely to be dispersed throughout it, we collectively are going to have to make the hard transition to reality and accept the fact that we are not only not alone but that many are more advanced. Maybe a lot of it is going to turn out to be stranger than fiction too, making our heads spin and requiring a major rearrangement of our belief structures.

After reading 'Psychic Warrior', with its occasional references to advanced life forms and new paradigms,  it makes me think that RVers are at the spearhead of a new level of consciousness evolution for the human race - one that will help to prepare for our eventual crossing from an earth-based mentality to a universe-based one. As for possible life forms proximal to our own sun, does anyone knows of an existing database of RVed stars (and their planets) together with any findings that could signal other civilizations. If so, I would like to get a web site address. Other references would be welcome too.

2.   On a related subject, the exact spiral classification/structure of our Milky Way Galaxy is undetermined. From the solar system's position within the disc, large regions are obscured, specially the central core and opposite spiral side, not to mention features in our vicinity! One would suspect a skilled RVer/sketcher could be tasked to view from selected galactic coordinates above and below the disc, sketching the geometry of the largest 'visible' from that location (eg - the Milky Way). The monitor might need to prompt the RVer to pinpoint where our sun is located. Given a large number of sufficiently accurate 2-D drawings made at numerous galactic coordinates, computer processing could smooth anomolies and generate a 3-D model. Astrophysicists could then correlate it with known 'local' structure. If judged accurate enough on on the basis of present data, it could become a hypothetical model spurring the design of new experiments to further elucidate its veracity. Of course, RVers may have to wait years/decades for any verification of their work. Does anyone know if this has ever been tried? If it is presently being worked on or if some astrophysicist wants to tackle it, I'd like to get involved. Such a model might spur sound research that could be worked into a PhD thesis for a lot of grad students.

William M.


> it makes me think that RVers are at the spearhead of a new level of consciousness evolution for the human > race - one that will help to prepare for our eventual crossing from an earth-based mentality to a universe-based one.

I and most RVers would probably agree.

> As for possible life forms proximal to our own sun, does anyone knows of an existing database of RVed stars (and their planets) together with any findings that could signal other civilizations. If so, I would like to get a web site address. Other references would be welcome too.

I believe your best bet would be to contact some of the major players(Lyn B., Ingo S., Joe M., ect.) most of them have viewed outer space.

I feel you have an excellent idea.

To get the most accurate data you would have to find some one who has a lot of practice or practice a lot your self.

Go for it!

John


> By way of example, if I'm a rank beginner going up against targets that would be 'intermediate' level, and getting poor results, I'm less likely to get discouraged if I know the targets are going to really challenge my present RV ability. Maybe a few of you would agree or have reason to differ with this? I would also welcome any hints you might have on differentiating targets from what is one very 'over-active' imagination.

CRV is learned by steps (simplest to complex).

The first step in CRV is identifing the gestalt(s)(the most general impression) and getting more complex data from there on, ect.

> 3.   From all the information I have picked up on RV, it seems that there is a premium to be placed on learning it right the first time around. The big draw-back is the high cost of training.

Training ranges from $100-250+ for home study courses and $1000-3500 for formal training.  I would suggest training with either Lyn B. or Paul S. $1000 and $2500 respectively.  Lyn, I feel, is not only the more affordable but also the more experienced, all together.

[Archivist Note: There are no home-study courses for the Remote Viewing methodologies that the U.S. Gov't intelligence Viewers were using. You have to train in person for those. As of November 1997 the only public instructors of those methods are Lyn Buchanan and Paul Smith.]

If learning RV is as dire to you as it is to me.  I would suggest doing whatever has to be done to get the money(ethically).  Such as selling whatever you don't need to get by, getting a second job, etc.

Doing it right the first time, I'm sure, will save you tons of money.

I hope that helps

John


Hi John,

>>If learning RV is as dire to you as it is to me.  I would suggest doing whatever has to be done to get the money(ethically).  Such as selling whatever you don't need to get by, getting a second job, etc.<<

There is something about this paragraph that really scared me. :-) There are a lot of people who have a .... well, somewhat more glorious idea of remote viewing than what it [practically] is.  Now I can hardly fault anybody for becoming immediately obsessive about it and wanting to learn about it, since that's my own history with it as well.  And a little extra ambition to pay for something you want is fine.  But this is NOT some kind of major mind blowing sell-anything-to-buy-it kind of thing. ;-)

To me, that fervor indicates that a person may be investing quite a bit more into their expectation than they're likely to get out of it. The rather bizarre misrepresentations of what RV is and does in the media, from the radio shows to certain books, sponsor these misunderstandings in people.  RV becomes less a discipline and more a religion.  I don't know that that's healthy.

RV is mostly a lot of work.  Done right, the process is reasonably neat, though it takes discipline, and it only becomes neat once you get to a certain skill; otherwise it is a mind numbing chore of record keeping and 'proper protocol' that in some places is a framework of relief, and in others is probably just anal-retentive hogwash you're wading through because you've chosen that uniform.

Sorry to be so drolly realistic about it.  It's not that it isn't interesting.  It's just that I am concerned about encouraging people to be impractical about pursuing it.  Especially when we're talking about a methodology here.  The protocol and many tips for RVing 'naturally' (without someone else's structure) can be found in Joe McMoneagle's book "Mind Trek" for a few bucks.  That's worth a try while you're waiting to afford methods training.  (You can find info on the book/Joe at: http://www.firedocs.com/remoteviewing/joe/ )

If I had any advice to give people based on what I've learned in the last couple of years about RV, it would be that the MOST important thing is being able to arrange your life so you really can put the time into it necessary.  You really need some privacy and quiet for it, you really need to be able to do both the RV, and the paperwork that accompanies good Viewer Profiling, and the various exercises, etc.  Working, having a family, these things don't leave a lot of time for a serious investment in practice et al., and they often don't leave a lot of space for quiet/privacy either.  It doesn't matter who you train with or what you learn, if you don't have the situation where you can really WORK on it -- and this _takes work_ -- it is not going to do you much good, until you find that situation.  So, arranging your situation to make it possible for you to be really devoted to it is at least as necessary as arranging the money to make training possible in the first place.

PJ


Sorry, folks, I just can't let this go by...

>it makes me think that RVers are at the >> spearhead of a new level of consciousness evolution for the human >> race - one that will help to prepare for our eventual crossing from an >> earth-based mentality to a universe-based one.

RVers are taking advantage of an ability that we all have.  If the utilization of and confidence in this ability facilitates some kind of consciousness shift, that's great.  But these abilities have been around awhile...

>any >> findings that could signal other civilizations.

The best "findings" that signal the presence (right here on Earth) of other civilizations are the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people that are having contact right now today.  Those direct experiences are worth a zillion RV sessions.  Unless you want to RV some of the human participation in the UFO-issue, which could be quite worthwhile. ;-)

>I believe your best bet would be to contact some of the major players(Lyn >B., Ingo S., Joe M., ect.) most of them have viewed outer space.

Although, from what I've read, some of their more interesting ET/UFO experiences took place while *not* in an RV session, but in real life. Which only emphasizes my point...

>To get the most accurate data you would have to find some one who has a lot >of practice or practice a lot your self.

You can't use RV-obtained info as stand alone solid data.  Needs to be combined and reinforced with other information coming from other sources (see above).

Just so I've made myself perfectly clear, or as clear as I get at 7 AM...it's very dangerous this attitude that we can just ignore the people who have direct knowledge of this subject, and instead choose a less than 100% method like RVing.  To use the RVing to further flesh-out the experiencers stories...perhaps.  But all too often the driving force here is an emotional need to disconnect from what the experiencers are telling us.  Much safer to read Carl Sagan and go watch "Contact."  And dream of mapping the galactic neighborhood using a nice (remote) method like RVing.

If you know what I mean...

Skye T


Hi William,

>>Maybe a lot of it is going to turn out to be stranger than fiction too, making our heads spin and requiring a major rearrangement of our belief structures.<<

Even the reality around us fits that description, let alone subjects like aliens. :-)

>>RVers are at the spearhead of a new level of consciousness evolution for the human race - one that will help to prepare for our eventual crossing from an earth-based mentality to a universe-based one. <<

Skye already pointed out that psi is hardly new.  But I don't mind looking at RV the way you mention, for two reasons: (1) It's fairly inspirational to those who want the 'bigger purpose' behind the mundania of practice; and (2) there is in fact one thing RV has that few other approaches to psi have had: logic and feedback.  Now, there have been presentations of the theories of 'psi as a biological and/or measurable effect or talent' before.  But RV's insistence upon targets with feedback, upon documenting results, in general upon doing things in a controlled fashion, IS a hard-earned evolution, for which we have a lot of science and intel people to thank.

(Obviously I'm referring only to RV under proper protocol here...)

It is the 'rational' approach to psi that drew me to RV in the first place.  The way I see it, there are hundreds of ways of going about psi, and most of the people already open to the subject can find and use one of them.  It's the businessmen, policemen, soldiers and engineers and construction workers and bankers and so on -- the people who both shoulder the bulk of our society and in general are NOT given to following already-established mystical paths -- these are the people who need an approach to psi that is accessible to their belief system.  For the first time, with RV and its history, conscious psychic functioning became a potential to a lot of people who would never have let themselves believe in it before.  It was presented as logic instead of religion, as something with factual feedback and real-world applications, rather than mysticism (which in the mind of most people in our culture equals "nonsense").

That majority is what has the potential to swing the direction of our civilization; and, as part of that, to actually provide the funding for research and implementation, the applications, et al.  The way I see it, presenting RV in a manner that upheld what it was designed for -- to be replicable and provable and useful -- is the most critical thing to the people on our planet accepting it, learning about it, learning about themselves in the process, and maybe something changing in our world as a result.

>>If judged accurate enough on on the basis of present data, it could become a hypothetical model spurring the design of new experiments to further elucidate its veracity.<<

A rather interesting idea William.  There are far more great potential applications for RV than there are Viewers.  And in particular, than there are Viewers who are truly skilled enough to succeed in them.  Keep in mind that the general learning curve for this, depending on at least some amount of innate skill and a lot of practice, is about the same as martial arts.  That means, at least 2-3 years of daily obsessive practice, or 5-6 years or so of p/t practice.  At this point, RV has only been declassified for people even to begin teaching it to the public since late 1995.  There simply has not been time for very many students, of ANY school, to build up the requisite experience/skill for this kind of thing.

This is only aggravated by the fact that RV training is expensive, which means in general that the people who take training have full time jobs (and often personal lives as well of course).  Which means in turn they really don't have the luxury of a lot of free time for practice.  I'd say it will be about another five years before we really have more than a handful of people especially competent at this at the levels required for the kind of applications you mention.

PJ


>If I had any advice to give people based on what I've learned in the >last couple of years about RV, it would be that the MOST important >thing is being able to arrange your life so you really can put the >time into it necessary.  You really need some privacy and quiet for >it,

I agree completely, and it's one of the hardest things to do, especially if you have a family.  I used to get up early to do my morning practice before everyone got up.  Unfortuneately, lately, my 2 year old now wakes up while I'm attempting to sneak downstairs, and, believe me, it is impossible to practice RVing with 'Moooommmmmmmyyyyyy' or 'Daaaaaddyyyyyyyyy' echoing through the house.  :-)  Even if you have a spouse, it is important to let that person know what you're doing and to please not disturb (which includes vacuuming in another part of the house, turning the pages of the book he/she is reading in the same room, coughing, etc. etc.)  Maybe once you get practiced, you can ignore these distractions, but I get very caught up in them.

But, I'll have to say, John, that RVing is not as boring and anal-retentive as PJ tries to make it out to be.  She is trying to inject some reality into, what seems very glamourous.  And I am of the opinion that the military RV method may go a little over-board in discipline (it's the military after all!!)  The important parts of the record keeping are write down everything, and feedback on everything written down.  Keeping a database of success rates is, in my opinion, optional, but good if you want to track progress.

<snip>
>So, arranging your situation to make it possible for you
>to be really devoted to it is at least as necessary as arranging the
>money to make training possible in the first place.

I think it is more important.  If you don't practice, you will not progress, and in fact, you will lose ground.  If you are on a big high after taking the course, it will be a big downer if you can't practice.  You will become disillusioned.  You will stop trying altogether.  When you do try to get back into it, you will be starting almost from scratch, which is a further downer.

On the upside, it is fun getting correct data on targets.  It doesn't take a huge commitment.  Give yourself 1/2 an hour in the mornings, at least 2 - 3 days per week, and try to do the same in the evenings.  You won't progress quickly, but you will progress steadily, and you won't burn out.

Good luck, and have fun!

Mike CT


I feel that the attempt to describe RViewing as conversation with persons in other dimensions, ET's etc. is mixing apples with - tires, let's say.  RViewing results in what you described as the American way, can be validated in sufficient situations so that we can get some kind of "proof" that it exists, and often works, by standards acceptable to ordinary folk, like me - and you... But dialogues with persons living in othe dimensions - well, that surely seems to be of flimsier stuff.  Now I happen to believe in the presence of a guiding spirit, or guides, if you want to personalize it, but to equate that with RViewing, well, it's just a stretch too much.... If I am missing your thrust, please clarify...

Paul D


>as PJ tries to make it out to be.  She is trying to inject some reality >into, what seems very glamourous.  And I am of the opinion that the military >RV method may go a little over-board in discipline (it's the military after >all!!)  The important parts of the record keeping are write down everything, >and feedback on everything written down.  Keeping a database of success >rates is, in my opinion, optional, but good if you want to track progress.

One of the perceptions that needs to be corrected here is the perception that the "military version of RV" is primarily based on a single methodology -- specifically the one devised by Ingo Swann as a training methodology. This is not correct. While it was certainly one of the methods used over the course of seventeen years, it wasn't the only one used. A great deal of the exceptional remote viewing done, did not use this methodology.

There is nothing "military" about the discipline. All of the "methods" used required more than moderate mental discipline. Historically, neither research nor military project records establish, or prove, any one particular method to be any more effective or accurate than any other form or method of viewing--in spite of what some people might say.

Regards,

Joe

[Archive Note: Joseph McMoneagle, former U.S. Intell RV]


> I feel that the attempt to describe RViewing as conversation with > persons in other dimensions, ET's etc. is mixing apples with - tires,

I have to agree with Paul that the term or reference to conversation is a bit out there.  It is possible to make contact with intelligences that are not part of this physical living existance.  However, to generalize or categorize such impressions is difficult. The hardest part is that there is typically little in the way of physical and hard evidence to validate the contact.  I'm, even in my airiest and fairiest, difficult to convince.  I have had contact with many other intelligebces who report their where abouts and describe the condition of their condition.  However, whose to say that I am not just in bad need Lithium or other medication.  I can only trust my own experiences as a natural psychic to tell me whether there was contact.

Now as to the content of information, I suggest an even greater level of  skepticism.  The dubious nature of what is happening - even after being involved over so many years, is still suspicious to me.  I can not suggest a higher level of skepticism and caution about accepting and information channeled or received.  Our job is also to be a good consumer of information as well.  This is a task that I feel very strongly about.  test everything derived from sources reported to be other than your own work, you will likely be less apt to be drug off track.

Rob


John--

Just arrived in Austin, and while I'm getting settled (i.e., waiting for my furniture while sleeping on the floor) I have a little time to dip into the viewer group.

At 02:32 AM 8/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Training ranges from $100-250+ for home study courses and $1000-3500 for >formal training.  I would suggest training with either Lyn B. or Paul S. >$1000 and $2500 respectivly.  Lyn, I feel, is not only the more affordable >but also the more experienced, all togather.

I greatly appreciate you recommending me as a source for CRV training! However, just to set the record straight (and also since you are certainly not the only one to misunderstand my pricing scheme! :-), while my top-end price IS $2500, that is for four days worth of exclusive one-on-one training for a single individual. I do have graduated rates as the size of the class expands--$1900 for two, $1500 for three, $1350 for four (these prices are for training at my location; they are marginally higher if I come to where you are).  I might occasionally be persuaded to do groups somewhat larger than this, if time and resources allow, but feel that for my approach to training, the instructional quality may suffer if they get too large.  Even after all that, I would agree that Lyn is the more affordable.  As far as experience--well, certainly don't want to start another squabble in the RV community--but I think even Lyn would agree that it would be hard to decide which of the two of us was the most experienced in this line of work.  Okay, okay, I'll shut up now...  (Sorry, PJ--if this too "commercial" you don't have to let it post to the group.)

Paul

[Archive Note: Paul H. Smith, former U.S. Intell RV]


<<new level of consciousness evolution for the human race >>

Tell you what. If you want to read about next development of consciousness for the human race, read MORE THAN HUMAN, by Theodore Sturgeon. He was a true visionary IMHO, and preceded Stanford about 20 years.

Nancy A


Hi people

Is there any conclusive documented evidence that this phenomena works, anything which has been tested using the proper protocols?

The most important thing is that because various people are able to do this, there research correlates. How can we dismiss it when several people see the same thing?

The only evidence we can trust, is what has been backed up by various people, the percentage of inaccuracies diminishes, the 100% hit becomes more credible.

So why is everyone having such a hard time believing in aliens and other dimensions?

Simply, because it challenges our limitations of belief.

Lets stop distracting ourselves with the processes and actually see what we can experience...... If anyone wants to expand there mind or challenge it, follow the co-ordinates and lets see what we can come up with:

946821

Sorry no front loading.

GOOD LUCK

AXE


>>Sorry no front loading.

Actually this entire letter is front loading.

Charles D.


Hi Jason,

You wrote: <<So why is everyone having such a hard time believing in aliens and other dimensions? Simply, because it challenges our limitations of belief. Lets stop distracting ourselves with the processes and actually see what we can experience...... If anyone wants to expand there mind or challenge it, follow the co-ordinates and lets see what we can come up with: >>

This is an email group for remote viewing.  CRV has a specific definition (set of them actually).  One of those definitions is, it's gotta have feedback.  Aliens and alternate dimensions don't have feedback, which is why they're not valid RV targets.  Nobody ever said they couldn't be psychic targets, though.  The reaction many Viewers (including me) have to the 'esoteric' targets has nothing to do with personal belief systems (mine are far more far out than most).  It has to do with the fact that it isn't "remote viewing" per se, though it MAY use any given psychic methodology (including some that some people have chosen to call RV).  If you are interested in plain psychic work, as opposed to remote viewing work, I can recommend email groups for that instead.

PJ Gaenir 
VWR List Owner


Hi RViewers,

Specially to Mike, John, Skye, PJ, Joe, Nancy, Rob, Paul and Simon.

Mike,

I appreciated your comment about the importance of record keeping. That's something I need work on. I have all my RV notes so am going to put them into proper format, maybe using Lyn's recommendation for a 3-section notebook. Your mention of needing time alone and having regular practice is also well-taken. I have a wife and son (6 months old) so I know that planning for a 30-minute RV session and write-up afterwards takes planning, getting up early/staying up later or else LUCK! Maybe all three! SteadyJohn, Thanks for your encouragement on the astrophysics stuff. I'm not going to give up on it but it may take a few years and some academic backing to do it. Also looks more and more like I'll be the one doing the RVing. I'm going to have to learn how to sketch too. On my second RV on one of Lyn's targets, I was getting good (very) general impression that could be considered on target but then it diverged. What I still cannot get over is the super intense, dancing colours that came across. I immediately thought I was on target because they were many times more vivid than my imagination ever generates. Is intense colour visualization normal in RV or could some other mechanism be active? Maybe its a case where some part of the signal (eg colour) gets passed up from c

Skye,

You make me realize that I've neglected the UFO issue. I've always been curious about it but my interest in RV has brought it into a new sort of focus. I've never even seen one but that doesn't mean that a considerable number of people haven't had various forms of experience/contact. RVing some of the human+UFO involvement is certain to be interesting and Simon has already told me that it would be worthwile. I still think dreaming of mapping the galaxy with RV is worthy of consideration and my original proposal was that it would serve as a MODEL to be tested by astrophysicists. There is the broader purpose in this as you have alluded. We most certainly cannot use RV obtained information as solid data. RV has to be substantiated through feed-back in general and by firm scientific data in this example. For instance, I might RV the ancient Etruscan language but unless archeo-linguists can turn up some evidencf years or ever proven correct if we could live a thousand lifetimes. Tt does, however, have an impact on how we think, on how we view ourselves and others and maybe has some bearing on how we see and will eventually interact with the rest of our amazingly wierd and complex universe. As Rob so aptly pointed out, it is healthy for us to remain skeptical and cautious about the information we receive until proven otherwise. That means not only what is obtained from other sources but oftentimes, from ourselves PJ (and later to Joe M.), Glad to find out you're a woman. I had you pegged for a man! The opposite happened with Lyn - one of my sisters was named Lynn so I automatically thought it was another form of the feminine. There are times when the imagination has to make an abrupt 180 degree  turn.  I like the way you write. I immediately agree with you that the application of scientific methodologies, reproducibility, logic, feedback and documentation is what makes RV so attractive to me. If I'm at an operational level and maybe able   Thanks for the reference to 'Mind Trek' I've got it on order and it should be in any day now. I've read some of Joe's talk show transcripts so am waiting for it in eager anticipation. I've also been 'killed from curiosity' a thousand times over, regarding this machine he has RVed from the future and is trying to build and find out what its supposed to do. Maybe Joe could spare a moment and cut us all in on the action. If its in the book, maybe he can give us an update?

Nancy,

Thanks for the reference. I'm going to order 'More Than Human', if its still in print. Once I've read it and had a few days to reflect on the content, I'll write a quickie review for this site in case others may want to take a crack at the book. I might relate something of interest that happened to me just slightly before I came upon RV. [By the way, I came upon RV through Dr. Orloff's book 'Second Sight' and its references to the work of Mobius.] One day, something opened up inside of me from below. I knew right away my psyche was trying to show me something significant. Just as in a camera lens, a huge circular valve spiraled open to reveal the most beautiful, crystalline blue and I was peering down into it. The next day, the same thing happethought is pulled from the (amber) Stream and given form in imagination (another form of consciousness?). So this we may call a virtual reality except to me it is NOT virtual but real. I could cloak my imagination in matter (another form of consciousness?) to give it form. If I were able to go a tiny step further as creator with a small 'c', then maybe I would use other constructs of consciousness to endow the form with spirit (ego?) and soul (psyche?). Whoa here, but the thought already occurred to me a c a super-conducting magnet, drawing energies from the Stream. [And then I am reminded of Joe McMoneagle's statement that is so beautiful and deserves repeating: "Your first real taste of liberty comes from knowing that all is birthed within the mind--wealth, health, fear, good and evil." (apologies, Joe)] Well, I don't have to go on, do I? This stuff has applications to xRV work. Maybe by accessing the Stream, new RV methodologies, other 'over-the-horizon' techniques and many applications for the benefit

William M.


> Is there any conclusive documented evidence that this phenomena works,
> anything which has been tested using the proper protocols?

Dear AXE,

Go into the various RV groups web pages and look up some of the scientific studies that have been done.  I believe Professor Jessica Utts (U.C. Davis), reviewed 1835 experiments to draw her conclusions and Spottiswoode of Cognitive Sciences Labs over 4,169 to draw his conclusions on the hit ratios during 1330 Sidereal time.

Perhaps that may help you to understand that RV is not simply a wishful idea, but a scientific process that has a long track record.  I hope you find what you are looking for, my friend.

Thanks,

Rob


> To me, that fervor indicates that a person may be investing quite a > bit more into their expectation than they're likely to get out of it. > The rather bizarre misrepresentations of what RV is and does in the > media, from the radio shows to certain books, sponsor these > misunderstandings in people.  RV becomes less a discipline and more a > religion.  I don't know that that's healthy.

Hi PJ

Thanks for your concern.  Your comment made me re-evaluate myself .  My comment if taken the wrong way can cause an extreme inbalance in one's life and I believe thats the point you were making.

I feel obsessivness is OK, if and only if you have the personal side of you in balance. A good example of this would be buddist or catholic monks, who are excessive in their ways of life but spiritully they are in complete balance.

A social life is important but can be cut down to the minimum and the time used for socailizing can be spent in a higher priority situation.  And of course before you take any extreme actions(according to consensus reality), one should double check their priorities and double check what type of cicumstances will follow.

I just wanted to make clear that I wasn't a ravishing lunatic extremist and what I had suggested is possible under the *correct* circumstances.

"All is good"

John


> I agree completely, and it's one of the hardest things to do, especially if > you have a family.

You only forgot to mention the dogs, the parrot, and the horns honking for carpoolers.  Peace and quiet is hard to come by.  I found that using a conference room at work early in the day to be one of the best places to meditate.  There is almost nobody in and virtually no noise.  Even the telephones are quiet earlier in the day.  Additionally, the rooms themselves are very bland.

Rusty


Paul H. Smith wrote:
> Just arrived in Austin, and while I'm getting settled (i.e., waiting for my > furniture while sleeping on the floor) I have a little time to dip into the > viewer group.

I like your priorities, computer first then furniture!  Just so long as you have the essentials :-)

> it would be hard to decide which of the two of us was the most experienced > in this line of work.

From what I can tell, both you and Lyn have the ability to teach the subject, strong ethics, secure egos, and no guru/messiah complex.  IMHO, those factors are MORE important for a successful learning experience. In fact, any instructor lacking any one of the last three characteristics should be a show-stopper for any prospective students. Unethical self-aggrandizing messiahs worry me more than whether one person has 17.9 years of experience versus 20.3 years for another. (Numbers are mythical.)

Rusty


>I found that using >a conference room at work early in the day to be one of the best places >to meditate.  There is almost nobody in and virtually no noise.  Even >the telephones are quiet earlier in the day.  Additionally, the rooms >themselves are very bland.

That's a great idea!  I realised after I sent the note, that, when I'm all quiet and sitting still, trying to meditate or RV, is the best opportunity for one of my cats to sit on my lap and start purring.  Very distracting!!  :-)

I've found that during lunch breaks I can drive to a quiet spot and RV in my car.  (If only I had an RV!! :-))

Nancy A


END ARCHIVE 18
AUGUST 04 1997 TO AUGUST 21 1997

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