firedocs archives

Public Viewer Email Group
Archive 022
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This is an archive file of the public Viewer [VWR] email list. This list is sponsored by the private Viewer Forum, hosted by Paradigm Systems and Design, and owned and operated by PJ Gaenir. It is dedicated to discussion of the practical aspects, theories and experience of formal psychic methodologies such as Controlled Remote Viewing, and independent efforts by the public interested in working under the formal RV protocol (the set of rules which define "remote viewing" as the term was coined in a science lab). You can find details, rules, and a form for joining the email group here. The list is moderated during operation and archiving. I remove last names and detail locations of contributors (within the archives) for privacy, and signatures for space conservation. I have added notes marking the posts from former U.S. intelligence remote viewers. Archiving of posts is done manually and may not include all posts.

This is the twenty-fourth archive.

NOTE: Archives 21-24 are... kind of messy. There was a massive volume of posts, many of which didn't make it to the archives because they were off-topic, humor, flames, etc.. (But, which may be what someone responded to in a post that did make it into the archives.) Due to the message volume and response time, you may even read something that responds to messages you've never seen but which might appear a couple of archives later. (I even found one beautiful and impossible example where someone's reply to a question was quoted as the inspiration for the post that asked the original question that got the reply. I'm so confused... really, we were in the twilight zone... ) And on top of all that, the majordomo was acting up so a few things just got outright lost. So if the linear process of these archives seems to be a bit fuzzy.... bear with us. -- PJ


SEPTEMBER 05 1997 TO SEPTEMBER 17 1997
BEGIN ARCHIVE 22

>in these metaphysical matters all you seem to get are abstract hints, which don't do much for the way of science, no matter how clear the "abstract hints" appear to be to yourself. <

Precisely. Glad you said that, since it was for those reasons that I spotlighted your prior remarks on this forum. IMHO, the less "cosmology" we cart in with us to an RV session, the better.

Also, it *is* possible to live without a "belief system". That's exactly what most Buddhism and especially Zen's about. Which explains their relative unpopularity in Western culture where most of us have become certainty junkies.

John Keel, a well-known UFO investigator -- and very much the contrarian in that menagerie of back-biters, sensationalists, dogmatists, and doctrine pushers -- used to bellow to his colleagues at every available opportunity, "BELIEF IS THE ENEMY!!"

-=d=-


>I do not believe your engineer friends will find the answer to their problems here or through RV. <

Again I think you misread me. The engineers I wrote of came upon their paranormal perceptions *spontaneously* and were going bonkers around them. They weren't RVers. In fact, RV wasn't even a term in public use at the times these guys had those experiences. ...

-=d=-


>For the "newbies" on this great list of PJ's, it helps a lot if you can >"centre" yourself and still your mind by going to alpha before remote viewing. >I prepared a complete instructional article on how to learn this quickly..its at http://malls.com/australian-lateral-thinking/lps.html > >Jim

Dear Jim,

I was glad to see this message. Up until a few months ago, you had been insisting that a person had to be in the theta state in order to do remote viewing. I had written you a too-lenghty explanation that while most parapsychological work is done in theta, CRV is done in the normal waking (or alpha) state. Glad to see you did the homework.

I'm a little confused though, by the above. What good is an instructional article to teach people to quickly achieve the alpha state, when they have to already be in the alpha state to read the article?

Confused in California, or

Lyn

[Archive Note: Lyn Buchanan, former U.S. Intell RV]


>"You clearly understand that remote viewing is a natural function of the human mind...... and you easily accept this. . ."<

Jim,

This message and the whole subliminal tape idea you present here is an example of the sort of thing I've been arguing against in prior posts. I've no doubt it may work without negative consequence for some people whose difficulty with psi-fear is *only* conceptual. But I'd bet that's only about 0.1% of the people who experience psi-fear. For the rest, the issue goes much deeper than anything that can be ameliorated by something as simple as repeated affirmations. I've been on about those complexities and depths before.

One way such repeated affirmations -- a kind of wistling in the dark, IMHO -- can backfire if the real terror or phobia is a much deeper psychological issue is by creating yet another unawares layer of psycho-deadlock. Something like this:

I've listened to the tape 20 times, but I'm still not getting any better at RV, and I'm still doing it with the same kind of lump in my gut that I can't identify. And now, on top of that, I get a weird choking sensation occasionally too. It must be because I'm not listening well enough (or 'my mind isn't good enough' or 'I'm just too chicken' or 'the tape isn't telling me the right things in as commanding a tone as this scaredy-cat inside me will respond to'. . .etc.)

So now, I make a new and louder, more imperious message and listen to that 20 times with roughly the same lack of results. Pretty soon, I start sounding in the tape like a Colonel in the Waffen SS: "You *WILL* conquer your fear!! Javol!"

Or, another track is to give up RV (or whatever other investigation into the paranormal world I was exploring) in disgust, mostly at myself. "I'll just never be able to do it. I just don't have the guts. I'm a wimp." This is pretty damaging and also seals over even tightly such access as there might have been to the deeper sources of the fear.

The most damaging track, however, may be the one we see so often in the "terribly nice" new age matrons from Marin County who've bit hard into the whole saccharine, plasticized fruit of boot-strapping "self-improvement" and "spiritual development" and shop every new workshop, guru, diet fad, human potential gig. . .the works. These folks live in a sad purgatory of chronic, low-grade anxiety, just "knowing" that the next hot item or Twelve Step Program for money addiction, etc., will do the trick and help them "grow". And these ladies luuuuuv subliminal tapes! There are two or three large, full color, mail order catalogues in the USA chock full of these tapes. And doing a land-office business, they are. Pop-psych is quite profitable.

When I meet one of these ladies, the first thing I notice is the permanent smile frozen onto her face. "Frozen" being the operational term here. Think about it. It gets less funny as you paddle through the logic.

In less charitable moments, some of us nasty, newage bashers joke morbidly about this track that's so common here in the Altered State of Northern Kalifernya. We call these folks "terminal niceness cases". Again, sounds kinda funny at first, but gets less so the more you think about it.

[The above is not a full exposition of the problem. It relies heavily on innuendo and macabre humor to make it's point as briefly as possible. *Reams* of criticism of subliminal or near-subliminal tapes have been written from both the psychological "right" and the "left".]

-=d=-


Hiya all

...let me add something from what I learned from a christian church I used to attend a long time ago.

The bible specifically states that "God" knows you before you were born. In other words "He" knows all things, transcending space and time. I think most would agree with that. OK. So if "He" knows all things past, present, and future, then that must mean that there is our future written in concrete or something more permenate.

We all percieve reality from different perspectives, they may be similiar but they are different if you look at the minute details. The reason we percieve things differently is because we are all different. OK.

If we were to remove our egos, which is possible, though practice. For most a lifetime of practice, we would be our true selves(Gods). Don't forget, the bible says we are created in his image(not just physically but in everything that we are). This is the buddist may goal in life. OK.

Heres my point. The future, just as our individual perspectives of reality can be different from another persons. But there is an ultimate reality or future that cannot be altered, except through perception.

How does this relate to RV(so that PJ dosen't kick me off this wonderful list)? To get true information via conventional or unconventional means one must(according to this philosophy) be in tune with thy self.

From my understanding, RVing the future is a hit and miss situation for most. I believe, according to what I have concluded about the space/time continum, that getting *good* information about the future sporatically is being in touch with you truer or higher self sporatically.

Does Rv tie into religion? I believe so.

Please comment. I want to hear some opinions on concept.

Thanks to all

John


>This message and the whole subliminal tape idea you present here is an >example of the sort of thing I've been arguing against in prior posts. I've >no doubt it may work without negative consequence for some people whose >difficulty with psi-fear is *only* conceptual. But I'd bet that's only about >0.1% of the people who experience psi-fear.

As always, the proof of whether a product/concept works is in the market place. We've had no complaints at all about this tape...only positive comments. As a former stage hypnotist I'm fully aware of the effect that the wrong type of repetitive message can have on the human mind, so in all the tapes we produce here, we avoid ambiguous or overly emotive suggestion. The alpha instructional tape (which is a freebie on our web site) is a classic example of this. We originally sold nearly 2000 copies of this and I notice that this particular web site has had almost 3000 hits. Not one negative response...only very grateful positive feedback. Of course if an individual is naturally negative by nature...then nothing will work for them. But seriously, I don't want to socialise or do business with that type of individual anyway. In my book, they are a waste of space. [Further comment edited by Archivist.]

Jim


>I am interested in how people prepare themselves to remote view. Or, even if >you find it necessary to do so.

I don't do anything at all and I have no problem getting right into the session, *if I'm relatively well rested*. I have had a lot of trouble with sessions on week nights after work. I find that I have simply lost my ability to make subtle distinctions. It's the difference between piloting the Queen Mary versus a speed boat.

At times during those weeknight sessions I have gotten into aol-drive big time and have just sat there and watched myself do it, seemingly helpless to do much about it. Once that Queen Mary starts to turn, I just don't seem to have the oomph shift the momentum. And this is not the case when I'm rested, in fact I usually don't have that much trouble with aol.

It has occured to me that a relaxation session might help these weeknight disasters, except I know from experience that when I do any kind of mediations under such conditions I either fall asleep (and become completely unmotivated to do any kind of session at all) or I'm overtired *and wired*, in which case I can't get myself to focus enough to do a simple toes-to-head progressive relaxation exercise and keep finding excuses to get up and do something else...burn off the excess energy.

Part of this effect has to do with my natural circadian rhythm. I'm definitely a morning person. That's when I'm most mentally sharp...it's the best time for doing math or editing written materials. I think of those as being very left-brain activities, but I have done very good sessions at that time, so apparently my right brain has no problem kicking in.

I do know some other remote viewers who are in a constant state of brain-overdrive, ideas flashing and churning about 26 hours a day. I would think for people like this, who might have a hard time focusing, then a relaxation or meditation exercise might be helpful.

Other people, who tend to overthink things, might suffer from a preparation period because it gives them too much time to worry or overthink the session they're about to do. For them it might be better to get into the session before they even realize that they're there.

I suspect it's a very individual thing.

Skye


<<Synchronicity or are we now into psyche-to-psyche global communications?>>

Wow! Leveda called it "evolving into operancy". I like that one too. I think we all have to practice the new skills to hone them. May I take this opportunity to thank all of the teachers.

Nancy


>>> As a complement to my CRV training, I'm now looking for an (controlled) >> ERV training. I mean an ERV training as close as possible to what was >> done by the former RV military unit at Meade.

Dear Jean Luc,

Hi. The ERV used in the unit was not formally trained. I go over the protocols now for most of my classes, and we've even tried it in one or two. It isn't hard, and I can give you a gist of it right here. (see below)

>> So, I have three new questions : >> 1/ Is the former military ERV procedure/method classified ?

No.

>> 2/ If not, would somebody of the former RV mili unit be able/willing to >> train me in this stuff on a 3 through 5 days session ?

Not necessary. Most of it can be done in this email. After that, it's practice, practice, practice.

>> 3/ Is there somebody from the former military unit already offering such >> a training ?

Since Dave Morehouse has popularized it so much (it was the method described mainly in his book), everyone wants to know, so like I say, I teach it as an adjunct to most of my classes now.

For the most part, the ERV used in the unit consisted of the following:

The monitor and viewer would enter the room for the session.

The viewer would lie down on the bed, or if in the other room, on a dental chair we had gotten from property disposal (I preferred the dental chair, since it was more comfortable on the back.)

Since ERV is so rich in visuals, the room lighting should be total darkness, or at the very least, extremely low. The monitor would sit at a desk and turn off the lights. Only a very small, red bulb which was on the desk would be left on, in order to allow the monitor to write. Then, the monitor would wait until the viewer evidenced being in the hypnogogic state.

Notice that the monitor is paying attention to the viewer to determine hypnogogic state in an almost totally dark room. That is just one of the things the monitor has to do in the session. In actual fact, it is the monitor who must be trained for ERV. The viewer only has to visualize and report. The monitor has all the work to do.

When the monitor sensed that the viewer was in the hypnogogic state, he would very quietly and in a monotone voice with evenly spaced syllables, give the coordinate numbers, then sit and wait until the viewer said something. The viewer would usually start off with sensory impressions - usually a color. As the viewer mumbles the impressions, the monitor must write them down, using only the dim red light. The monitor also records "time hacks". That is, every one or two minutes, on the minute mark, the monitor writes the time down on the session transcript. That keeps an ongoing record of WHEN the viewer said the word or phrase. That is important to understand session content later. For example, let's say the viewer says,

===========

Time: 10:01 "red.... tall... um... a house of some kind..." Time: 10:02

===========

You can fairly well assume that red and tall belong as descriptors to a house of some kind. However, if the viewer says,

===========

Time: 10:01 "red.... tall... um... Time: 10:02 Time: 10:03 Time: 10:04 Time: 10:05 "....a house of some kind..." Time: 10:06

===========

You cannot assume that the red & tall refer to the house.

Questions and cues are given to the viewer in order to direct the line of perceptive reporting. However, the monitor must do this in such as way as to keep the viewer in the hypnogogic state - neither letting the viewer wake up or fall asleep. This may go on for hours, and the viewer's condition is the total responsibility of the monitor. The session continues either until all the questions are answered, the viewer wakes up or goes to sleep, or it's time to quit and go home. Keeping someone in the hypnogogic state that long can be very taxing on the monitor, and takes a good deal of training and experience. That's why in ERV, it is the monitor who must be trained, not the viewer.

Sometimes, we would set up a lapel microphone and record the sessions. That was especially true for "mumblers".

ERV cannot effectively be performed without a (trained) monitor. The only person I have ever known who could do a solo (unmonitored) session was Joe McMoneagle. They used to tape his sessions so the secretary could transcribe them later. (There was one session he did where the secretary fought, fussed, fumed and cussed over one passage. Try as hard as she could, she just couldn't get what he was saying. It sounded something like: "The...um...urisnnk...jissjjl....is...a...usivjxkkjw." Later in the day, after she had worked on that passage for almost an hour, Joe came back from lunch. She asked him what in the world he had said, and he told her that she would probably understand it better in context, if she would continue playing what came later. She played it on through, and the tap said, "The...um...urisnnk...jissjjl....is...a...usivjxkkjw...... ......That was for you, Jeanie, hope you enjoyed transcribing it.")

Basically, that's all there is to explain about ERV. The doing of it is something else. You MUST have a trained and experienced monitor, capable of holding a viewer in the hypnogogic state for hours at a time while asking questions and writing down answers. It's not an easy job. I rarely ever acted as monitor for an ERV session. I was usually the viewer. But on those rare occasions when I did try the monitor's hat on, I gained a very high respect for the job they had to do.

Lyn Buchanan

[Archive Note: Lyn Buchanan, former U.S. Intell RV]


Future enfold as RVed:

I can report a case where what it was viewed ocurred. The 23 of Sept 1992 ,the patient J.CH .would die at midday. Walnut Creek California. This situation was clearly prepared to happen by the only son (conservator of the state) I reported it to a gov authority,I was unheard Beyond this, I was ordered by this authority not to proceed to request emergency assistance if the patient presented any heart complication. The day of 23 I struggled with myself all that morning, had only two choices: quit the job ( and leave the patient on his own) stay (and use all the psy resources I had to protect the patient) I should have quit the job, but I stayed I just couldn't walk away At 1:30 the patient collapse What did I did? I hold him and lift him beyond any human physical law. I TRANSFERED great deal of the phenomena he was going through to me.(PJ daughter episode /head pain transfered)

I know that if I would not have done it he would have died, the main problem was not for him to transcend ,(death is only a transition) was his awareness of where he would transcend. Where he was going was not a loving place he knew it and his fear was comprehensible. His soul own to many human debts, as a tough bussines man he did many wrongful things MANY.He knew. Through the transfering process I requested in exchange (to whom?: GOD? the Rulers? The Black Barons.) to allowe him more time so that he would depart in peace. I made a deal.

The patient suddenly was Ok.in good spirit, healthy and with no memory of what happened. In exchange I have endured a long painful injury. It has been a long way ,if I have recovered 65% of my abilities(against any prognosis) is because psy, and the awareness that everything is possible. ..................EVERYTHING

That if RVing can change the future in a subtle way?

Just by itself,...no Only if you envolve youself in/with the situation and DO /energy/ will something to change it.

I have other experiences before,and if some element of the situation/future is changed ... future changes...as planed and for good. I am certain that there are laws in the psy / dimension .Knowing them and learning to handle /use them is vital and part of our nature. What happen to me ,doesn't have to happen to anybody.It was just the result of ignorance.

Hope this helps.

MariTXU


Mari,

Taking on another soul's "karma" doesn't seem to me to be ignorance, but the highest form of love- "hath no greater love". It seems to me that if you no longer want that path, you will release what you have absorbed.

Blessings, Vic


I'm having some difficulty with ideograms and I'm looking for some guidance from experienced people.

I started RVing several months ago without using them, mainly because I didn't understand the process all that well. I've had fairly good success in my RVing.

But in the last few months I've read the SRV manual and seen a lot of discussion on ideograms and I got interested in trying to incorporate them into my 'method.'

But I'm not getting it. I don't get the automatic writing effect of the ideogram. I get a visual image of an ideogram, but it doesn't get drawn automatically.

Is there any trick to encouraging this? Am I too far along in my own hybrid that it's too late to learn to draw ideograms? Is visualising ideograms enough?

I'm planning to order the book 'drawing from the right side of the brain' soon. Will that help??

Thanks for your help,

Mike CT


Viewers,

Keep in mind that when someone comments on something, they may not be assuming YOU said it, but commenting on the whole group's discussions in general.

I agree that RV is not a self-improvement course; there are things better focused on that area for the subject. However it is a course that brings self improvement anyway, replete with all the interesting bumps in the road and exploration of alleys that relate to that.

If you are doing RV and you have not had tremendous personal insight, growth, and change, then you aren't doing it at a very fundamental level.

It is well known that more "linear" personalities have a more difficult time both performing and accepting psi et al. However, to suggest that people who are left brain oriented should just not bother because they're not qualified or that they'll never be successful is incorrect IMO. As a high left-brain type who has shifted radically over the last few years, I know that this is a simple matter of educating and integrating a manner of thinking and existing -- the intuitive side -- that our culture has atrophied while teaching us math and so on. Everybody has two halves to their brain. If one side is heavily dominant that is not good or bad, it is a matter of a lack of balance, and that can be worked on and resolved in either direction.

People who are opening up and exploring themselves should really not have to face arrogance from those there that tells them not to bother because they'll never get it. They CAN get it. They DO get it. I see RV students all the time who get it and do well and start a whole path of opening themselves up and recognizing their potential.

RV is interesting, and falling into the study of it can in fact, open people, even skeptical engineering types, up to the point where everything changes for them, where they learn to listen to themselves, and accept that. A little support and education from those more comfortable already would be ... more useful.

PJ


Hi Jason, Yes I have seen grids many times in viewing, and also have found no one who can understand nor explain the phenomenon. I have seen grids around the planet many times white, gold, iridescent, grid shapes resembleing the physcial object I was viewing, also one time I was sandwiched between red neon grids to watch DNA and geometric objects (also neon colored) float by with near 360 d. vision all at the same time. I'm not sure this is RVing. By the way, when are you going to tell me what the target was, I viewed for you?? "See" ya

Terri


>But I'm not getting it. I don't get the automatic writing effect of the >ideogram. I get a visual image of an ideogram, but it doesn't get drawn >automatically.

I'm in the SRV stream at the moment. We were taught to write the coordinates as they are dictated by the monitor and then immediately, without thinking of what will be drawn, draw the ideogram. It is a short, rapid movement, that to me, is more like a wrist movement than the finger movement of ordinary writing. Fine finger movement is too slow and perhaps indicative of conscious mind interference. The ideogram is drawn so rapidly that sometimes the tip of the pen doesn't even leave the paper after writing the last number of the coordinates.

We were urged to practice doing ideograms -- a very boring aspect of training -- but it actually helped. For example, practicing it went like this: Learn the standard ideogram for, say, water (wavy horizontal line) and then instruct yourself to draw that ideogram rapidly. Again, it helped to learn to do this more as a rapid wrist action than a well-defined and coodinated finger movement. Do the same for the other ideograms. Then do "drills" (yawn) saying "water", "land", "subject" and so on through the list and rapidly draw that ideogram. Then mix 'em up in a random drill.

As you can imagine, I did wonder what was the purpose of this was. My understanding of it now is that I am conditioning/training my conscious mind to reflect what my subconscious wants to tell me. To let that seep through, I needed a simple language minimally suceptible to conscious mind interference.

I needed to do this drill now and then and the sign of needing to do it was that my ideograms started being unrecognizable. Doing the drills for a bit made it better again.

Hope this helps.

Rick S


There is a software program available for Windows systems w/soundcard that has a voice calling out the prompts so you can do ideogram drills. You can vary the speed and you can program it with your own voice and add your own ideogram prompts if the ones you want aren't on the program. Email raziel@mail.ameritel.net if you're interested. If you have a friend that's willing to help out, just have them give you the verbal prompts.

The trick is to do the drill for awhile, like 20 mins. Once you've established the basic "language," the next trick is to get your conscious mind so bored that it starts drifting and this will allow your subconscious to draw the ideograms. Don't expect it to be automatic writing, though, it won't seem like that to begin with. Speed is important and will get the ideogram out onto the paper before your coscious mind can mess with it.

Skye


Dear Group,

My two cents, for what they are worth. How can one possibly argue that the thread "Fear/Psi" is not relevant to the development of RV skills and the discussion of same?

That issue dispensed with...the next issue is the preponderance of personal/humorous posts in the past week or so.

From my perspective, the fact that the humor and the fear arose simultaneously is no coincidence. This group is beginning to act like a group. We are no longer a collection of individuals talking *at* each other, but are beginning to share in a process here. Part of that process is one of trusting each other and feeling comfortable enough to share personal issues and stories. I suspect we can't discuss the issue of fear/psi unless/until we are willing to take it out of the realm of mental mast*******, and into the realm of the real and personal. (That might also somewhat reduce Gene's objections to this process. <g>)

What may seem like a waste of time it probably a very healthy sign in this group.

That said, who is going to address Joe's question about fear of failure? (I'll answer it myself, when I return from my week's absence...I'm not officially here and typing this email right now! <g>)

Skye


>We were urged to practice doing ideograms -- a very boring aspect of >training -- but it actually helped.

Hi Rick;

You got it!! IMO ideograms are the way our subconscuous (SC) talks to our conscious. The SC has acces to the information in the matrix. It just needs to know how we want it to pass that information to us. Those boring practices are the way we talk to our SC and tell it how we would like that information. It helps if your SC thinks you are a moron. That way ideograms are passed that an idiot can decode. The first time I tried to put some structure on the way my wife worked, we did some drills after some brillent lectures on CRV theory on my part. I gave her the coordinates for the first time and her ideogram was actually a stage 3 skecth of the site. She decoded the ideogram perfectly. She did not know that ideograms are simple and you can not decode too much at one time. Not knowing that she was able to do what she was not suppossed to be able to do.

Ideograms ARE NOT automatic writing. If I feel my SC wants me to move my pen in a certain direction .... I do. If you practice drills and do enough sites ideograms become second nature. Good luck and keep up the drills.

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: "Liam," former U.S. Intell RV]


> Personally I am fond of the "archetypes" theory and see all entities > as "an aspect of me."

Reminds me of an elephant story. A novice had just learned that all was part of him therefore only aspects of himself. He stood in the way of an elephant who was running loose. Fortunately his teacher, the monk, pulled him aside but not before both of them were badly bruised by this great beast. As his teacher said, the aspect of himself that was the elephant had a different opinion of its existence. And, in the future, it would be wise to respect the opinions of the different aspects.

> If Courtney can wrap up RV in Maharishi Ayurveda/TM stuff,

Ah, I'll finally get the secret password. <VBG>

> I had been talking about "two or more people doing RV > sessions" with a number of different people,

There is a gestalt that occurs when two or more competent people work together, and share the same pattern, that is greater than the parts.

Rusty


This is to Rick,

IMHO an ideogram is a simplified sketch of an object, a person ,an animal, and even a concept.(The Webster's says : " a picture or a symbol used in a system of writing to represent a thing or an idea"

To get to it, very concretely, you may try this :

1/ select your preferred fiancÚ(e) and give you 6 minutes to sketch him/her (option : naked or not) in a very realistic(figurative) way ;-);

2/ repeat the operation by taking only 3 minutes to do the sketch,

3/ then once again, by taking only 30 seconds,

4/ finally do it in the frame of 1 through 3 seconds. Here you got it ! It's maybe just a line or two, a curve or a circle. In this last stage you got an ideogram !

That's what did Sandy, in a certain way, in Liam's report. A phase 3 sketch looks first like a sketch. In fact it's generally an ideogram often composed by several ideograms together (but in its essence, it contains the related reality you're RVing).

Now please look very closely to *your results*. If your model was redheaded in the first sketch, he/she remains it in the last one (even if you have to get closer to the ideogram to see it :)Your fiancÚ(e) is as much present in the sketch nr1 that he/she is in the nr4. Of course it's up to you to discover what *you* get by "ideographing" a mountain, Bill Clinton, a friend, a weapon, water, etc...

And remember... in chinese language, the term REN (man) for example represented at present time like a sort of reversed Y was, some years ago, just a sketch of a man ( as generally children sketch it).

The interesting point here for experienced RV people is

1/ to point out that the chinese ideograms represent a very interesting link between a (very realistic) sketch and a the final word related to the concerned item (person, object, plant, rock, concept...)

2/ to ask to the scientists if to use of ideograms connected to words and numbers as chinese do facilitates the access to RVing texts or Lottery numbers ;-)

Anyway, Rick, have fun

Jean-Luc.


>But in the last few months I've read the SRV manual and seen a lot of >discussion on ideograms and I got interested in trying to incorporate them >into my 'method.'

As I understand it, there is a problem with the way the SRV manual presents the ideograms. From what I have heard, it tells you what the ideograms' shapes and definitions are. Big mistake. For the writer of a manual to determine what your own individual subconscious mind should do in response to a conceptual gestalt is not very intelligent.

The whole concept behind ideograms is that YOU determine a shape which will represent the overall gestalt. Then, you consciously listen to a person, tape, or computer program as it calls out the ideograms, and draw that shape on the paper as you hear it. For example, a majority of people feel that a wavy line best represents the gestalt of "water" (many people prefer something else - that is their right). If you hear "water" and respond with the ideogram often enough, your physical response becomes a part of your autonomic nervous system (reflex action). Then, when you give coordinates to your subconscious mind, it can respond with a physical action which you can consciously understand.

>But I'm not getting it. I don't get the automatic writing effect of the >ideogram. I get a visual image of an ideogram, but it doesn't get drawn >automatically. > >Is there any trick to encouraging this? Am I too far along in my own hybrid >that it's too late to learn to draw ideograms? Is visualising ideograms enough?

The whole trick of ideogram drills is to learn to start the tape or program (or friend) calling out the words, and continue responding. You can only take so much of that before you phase out and start consciously daydreaming or thinking about something else. You then continue to practice the ideograms until such time as you phase back in and realize that you haven't been paying attention. You look down and the ideograms are there on the paper, but you really don't remember doing them because you were daydreaming about something else. Guess who's been doing them - your subconscious. After not too much practice, it gets so that it can respond any time you ask it to and tell you what gestalts are at any target site. While people say that it is automatic, the fact is that it isn't. It is actually a physical (body) response to a command from the subconscious mind. So that's the secret - begin the drill, phase out and start daydreaming as soon as possible, and let your subconscious mind do the practice. In theory, the ideogram drills should be really boring. However, if you practice them correctly, they are actually fun, since they give you time to daydream, solve the world's problems, slay dragons and rescue damsels in distress.

>I'm planning to order the book 'drawing from the right side of the brain' >soon. Will that help??

For a while, it was required reading in the military unit. It won't >>directly<< help your ideograms, but it will certainly help your ability to express concepts in graphic form. I would recommend this book to everyone who wants to learn CRV.

Lyn Buchanan

[Archive Note: Lyn Buchnan, former U.S. Intell RV]


I have been getting some requests for the ideogram program which I give to my students as a part of their course.

The program comes as a 3-disk installation set and is a Visual Basic stand-alone application (You don't need to have Visual Basic on your machine to run it). It was written for Windows 3.1 and Windows 95. If installed correctly, it can also be run on Windows NT. The version I have still begs for a version 2, but is very usable for anyone with a sound card.

It comes with a basic ideogram vocabulary on it, and more ideograms can be added for customizing your Phase I practice to suit your own needs as you progress and begin specializing in your own special uses for CRV.

We had not planned to sell these to the public, but if people really want them, we can. The costs are usually absorbed by the course tuition, and selling them will necessitate charges for the preparation, disks, labeling, mailing, etc. If there is an interest, we will be glad to figure up these costs and offer them for everyone's use. The cost won't be high. I would make it a shareware program, but since I have never received a single penny for any of the 18 shareware programs I have put out already, I swore never to do that again.

Lyn Buchanan

[Archive Note: Lyn Buchanan, former U.S. Intell RV]


Lyn,

> I kept trying my logon and password, and nothing happened. I tried >Guest/guest and nothing happened. I tried registering again, and nothing >happened.

You're talking about the private Viewer Forum (web site and BBS/Chat) above, yet you mean this email list, which is something totally different.

I just do this to confuse you guys. Gene and Liam tell me I'm doing really well.

Half a dozen brilliant intelligent guys -- remote viewers no less -- and they're lucky to get onto a web BBS without a seeing eye dog. (Ha! I'm teasing you know.)

> If not, then maybe I'm banned forever and will never be heard from again.

Psi work and paranoia -- ya just can't separate 'em. (At least I'm out to get YOU and not 85% of the human race. PJ, Russian Mata Hari Webmistress, disguised as a really boring American.)

>I've heard that there have been some very good discussions going on. Hope >I can join in.

We have solved half the problems of humanity while you weren't looking. While we were at it, we have discussed any number of other things that have nothing to do with RV alas, despite good original intentions in that direction. I think we just resolved a few people pulling each other's hair. Now we can settle down to something less than 20 long messages a day... (I secretly hope).

P.S. I think it was Vic who brilliantly dubbed you intell guys "The Viewerati."

See you tomorrow.

PJ


In regards to cooling down for CRV in particular, I have a couple of observations.

The primary point that non-Viewer seem to miss, that gets repeated ad nauseum by CRVrs and other RVrs, is that there IS NO specific brainwave state one must be in. And it seems to be different for different people as far as one's assessment of their own mood / state of mind / physical energy goes -- some people have to be half asleep, some have to be wired on coffee, some just sit down or stand up and do it.

As for clinical assessments of state of mind, EEG stuff is so complicated (though it has gained a rather charming astrology-sun sign-pigeonhole-type status as "one thing or another") that I don't think those measurements are useful as info unless you're working in a lab with a tech. That's not to dismiss tapes designed to get you to a given state though -- you know, whatever works for you, and if you're more comfortable taking a nap, running around the block, listening to a theta-inducing tape, meditating, whatever, fine. It's just that these are not _required_ prior to doing RV -- they are not PART of RV inherently, they are simply what individuals may prefer.

The one thing that trained Viewers know that for reasons beyond me, nobody thinks to SAY to explain this to the public, is that the reason CRV doesn't require a certain brainwave state is because -- excuse me for shouting -- THE ENTIRE STRUCTURE OF CRV IS ITSELF AN INDUCTION TO TARGET CONTACT. It's not that you "get yourself in a state of mind to be in psychic contact with the target and THEN do CRV" -- it's that "you do CRV and the process of CRV itself gets you in a state of mind to be in psychic contact with the target."

As wonderful as it is to be brilliantly accurate on all your data from the word go, in the real world, data tends to get more accurate and more complex as target contact gets deeper or stronger. CRV was designed to take you through the steps of psi data, from simple to graduatingly more complex, to increase your target contact, until after some session work -- which one of course hopes is mostly correct, but that's almost beside the point -- THEN one is in an advanced state of perception where THEN they sense/feel a great deal more data, more complex data, and the data with what is likely more accuracy. If you were wrong to begin with, that may affect your getting into advanced target contact, or the speed of doing so -- but once you get there, then you can make better decisions about what data is correct or not.

Now, if you can do TM, yoga, hypnosis, or disco dancing and it gets you to the place where you can get to "advanced target contact" more quickly, GREAT! Why not? But the methodologies many people talk about connected to RV were designed partly to BE the induction process -- technically filling the purpose that people assume meditation or hypnosis is supposed to be invoked for.

PJ


I feel it's necessary to mention that there is one other problem with ideograms that everyone should be aware of. If you have not yet experienced this problem, then I can say you most certainly will experience it eventually; that is--

Over time, they (ideograms) will change and in some cases change frequently.

Has to do with ego and who's going to be in charge upstairs (within the mind). So the language of ideograms is never fixed but changing--like a chameleon's skin. :)

Regards, Joe

[Archive Note: Joseph McMoneagle, former U.S. Intell RV]


Hello to all on the Viewer mailing list,

After having been subscribed to and having read for quite a while the posts on this list (along with some prodding from PJ) we have decided to become active in the discussions taking. Our names are Lisa and Brent, and some of you may know us as instructors for Lyn Buchanan's CRV courses held around the country.(Thus, the CRVstaf address) :-) We hope that we will be able to play a constructive role on the list for the remote viewing community, which seems to be growing by leaps and bounds. Where we hope to contribute most is in the technical area of CRV. Although we will pay deference to the military remote viewers who have been at this for a lot longer than any of the rest of us, our close contact with Lyn Buchanan, along with our experience in the hands on training of students gives us some insight into some of the problems that some of you may encounter when practicing the art of remote viewing. We will do our best to respond to any questions or insights that you may have in this area, and hope that we can contribute in a positive way.

Sincerely,

Lisa and Brent


>>As I understand it, there is a problem with the way the SRV manual presents >>the ideograms. From what I have heard, it tells you what the ideograms' >>shapes and definitions are. ... For the writer of a manual to >>determine what your own individual subconscious mind should do in response >>to a conceptual gestalt is not very intelligent.

I suspect SRV is trying to standardize an ideogram language so any analyst can then look at a hundred viewers' raw data and understand immediately what is being communicated. Isn't this a good idea?

The whole concept behind ideograms is that YOU determine a shape which will represent the overall gestalt.

Why is it important that YOU determine that shape? Can't the conscious and subconscious have an "agreement" that the standardized ideograms will be sufficient?

A very interesting post, Lyn.

Rick S


Rick wrote,

>>Why is it important that YOU determine that shape? Can't the conscious and >>subconscious have an "agreement" that the standardized ideograms will be >>sufficient? >

I think you can have agreement, but if you already have a natural impression of an ideogram, and the one in the manual is different, then you are overwriting your own, and have to relearn (fight with yourself). If I told you that an ideogram for a car was an upside down Y, you SC would be saying, "no it's not. That's ridiculous." Unless, maybe you were a fan of Mercedes, and then it would make sense to you.

>>The whole trick of ideogram drills is to learn to start the tape or program >>(or friend) calling out the words, and continue responding. You can only >>take so much of that before you phase out and start consciously daydreaming >>or thinking about something else. You then continue to practice the >>ideograms until such time as you phase back in and realize that you haven't >>been paying attention. >

So it's like driving!! :-) OK, I get it. So it isn't automajick writing from the psychic sense, but distracted writing.

>> I would recommend this book [Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain, by Betty Edwards] to everyone who wants to learn CRV.

Well, enough people have recommended this book now. Time to go out and get it.

Thanks so much, everyone, for your help on this topic.

Mike CT Remotely Viewing from the Yukon


END ARCHIVE 22
SEPTEMBER 05 1997 TO SEPTEMBER 17 1997

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