firedocs archives

Public Viewer Email Group
Archive 031
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This is an archive file of the public Viewer [VWR] email list. This list is sponsored by the private Viewer Forum, hosted by Paradigm Systems and Design, and owned and operated by PJ Gaenir. It is dedicated to discussion of the practical aspects, theories and experience of formal psychic methodologies such as Controlled Remote Viewing, and independent efforts by the public interested in working under the formal RV protocol (the set of rules which define "remote viewing" as the term was coined in a science lab). You can find details, rules, and a form for joining the email group here. The list is moderated during operation and archiving. I remove last names and detail locations of contributors (within the archives) for privacy, and signatures for space conservation. I have added notes marking the posts from former U.S. intelligence remote viewers. Archiving of posts is done manually and may not include all posts.

This is the thirty-first archive.


October 1997
BEGIN ARCHIVE 31

Joe, occassionally when using a dowsing pendulum the polarity reverses. i.e.. you get a "yes" when you know the answer should be "no". Usually lasts only a short period. Any idea whether this indicates a polarity shift as discussed above. Also I'm curious about how the polarity shift is measured...electronics wise. I assume a high impedance voltmeter is used on the body's extremities...but...which extremeties? Head to toe...or left to right hand? In my reaearch on PK luck cycles over the past 5 years there is some indication that an extended dowsing reverse polarity shift occurs at the crossover point of the emotional biorythm. Can last a couple of hours. I seem to have won an abnormal number of slots jackpots during this brief period. Food for thought?

Jim


Jean-Luc, To answer your question about time in the TMI lab, as of last year, once could buy sessions at the rate of $125 an hour . I do not know if there is a requirement for it, such as having completed at least the Gateway Voyage program. Probably Helen Waring could answer your questions about it, or switch you over to someone who could. Normally Skip and Dar monitor the session, and I suppose you could request who you wanted. As for specifically RV sessions, I would assume that it is your choice about what you wanted to do in there. In the sessions during the Guidelines program, the person in the isolation boothe is certainly in charge of what goes on.

Bob Monroe had a policy of not selling to the public any signals beyond Focus 12, except on the Going Home Series. I have listened to and worked with a great many of those tapes and I have found that most of the Metamusic Tapes have some of the strongest signals of any that are available to the public. But a good focus 10 tape will get you anywhere you want to go. Once you are able to do "mind awake, body asleep",(1O) you should be able to get to any of the focus levels and any that you want to create.

I myself find that I get a little too deep using hemi-sync to be able to report back during an RV session. I find that I can barely talk, definitely can't spell, but I suppose, as with everything else related to RV, this would be a highly individualized thing. So it would behoove one to experiment with various methods until you find the best method that works...and I expect that that would evolve over time.

The thing that works best for me at the moment, is doing a few sketching exercise from "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain. It works like a charm in 5-10 minutes.

I just read something about learning to chart your intuitive cycles by recording how much dream activity you can recall during a 28 day cycle. This is like an addition to a biorhythm chart. Those record your Mental, emotional and physical cycles. They look like sine waves and it is easy to pinpoint your highs and lows as well as "critical' days when one or more are peaking on the same day. My thinking is to record my results for a 28 day cycle and then try to correlate RV success with it and see if there are any "better" days. So far, the chart is very different than the normal biorhythm sine wave. When I started,it was in a high cycle that went along for 3 days, dropped to the bottom for 1 day, went back up for four days, dropped down for a day again, then went right back up. The scale goes from 0 to 5. My numbers were 5,4,4,0,4,4,4,4,0,4,4. I read subsequently that one is in a high intuitive cycle about 3/4 of the time. It is interesting, since I expected to see a sine-type wave. When I have something to report on this, I will. If any one is interested in trying this, e-mail me privately and I will furnish the details of chart construction...it is pretty simple.

Leveda


>I used the reverse polarity to know when I was at a specific place in >my meditation which was "conducive" to remote viewing. I learned to >do that at the Monroe Institute.

Thanks Joe;

A word here about some self impossed rules I have. I will relate what I did and how I did it. I will not post anything about the way other project members worked unless it is common knowledge or written somewhere else.. On the other hand I have no reservations about any other project members saying anything they want about me good or bad.

I had been in the "control room" with Skip monitoring Joe during some amazing sessions. One of the things Skip always checked was Jooe's polarity. When Skip told us to reverse our polarity, I remembered Joe and just did what I normally did before beginning an ERV session. It worked.

I would like to respond to two questions that were asked. I do not recall who asked them as itwas some time back and I have Irish Alzheimers, as least TOM told me I did.

One person had an apple for a target. He did not identify the apple but he/she identified what was around the apple. He wanted to know if that was a good session. Ingo calls that "near target." BTW an apple is a hell of a target. I do not think I could pick that up unles it was a very important apple, say the one Snow White ate or the one the serpent gave Eve.

Someone else went back to a previous target during a viewing and wanted to know if anyone else had a similar experience.

Very, very rarely. Having said that I had that experience last week. While doing an ERV session, the site reminded me of an operational site I had worked about 12 years earlier. I had not thought of the previous site in 12 years, but there it was. It pulled me off the present target I was working and I had to abort the session.

Sometimes, particularly if I have worked a lot of sites, I will get a fleeting impression that this site is similar to the one I worked two weeks ago. If I am working CRV I call an AOL break. If I am working ERV I objectify it. Either way it usualy does not cause any problem after I objectify (is that a word?) it.

I apologize for not answering sooner. I intended to, but I just got sidetracked by life.

Best wishes and of course

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]


I think I will get a real flurry of action going here... stand back PJ... here I come... Liam, who posted a reply concering getting distracted or called away to previous sites, was one of my folks when I acted as a monitor back in the government unit. He did get distracted at times especially on one particular occasion. On that occasion, Liam was looking at something in Moscow or Peking... its really unimportant now... all of the sudden "somebody" approached him in his altered state. This "person" had some messages for Liam which were very confusing and totally disjointed to him. When they were related to me certain words and phrases told me the "person" was undoubtedly my recently departed Father-In-Law. The first messages were "bonafides" about certain events in my life that only I and he could know about... nothing that Liam would or could have known about... then he left some other messages referring to another recently departed relative -- a very young nephew who had died of leukemia. No need to go into the messages... just note that Liam was called upon, completely unsolicited, to act as an intermediary in relaying a message to me and my family about a spiritual crisis we were going through... Go figure... huh?? OK... net buddies take your best shots... Gene..

[Archive Note: Gene Kincaid, former U.S. Intell RV]


No shots from this corner. I guess this is the sort of thing Joe McM. had in mind when he remarked that the practice can revise your outlook substantially. But didn't the episode agitate the upper reaches of the T/O?

Tom C


White Flag, Ive come in peace,Gene. Dont you think all these ancient civilizations, shamans, prophets etc, have been using a primitive form of remote viewing for centuries, if fact it would be seriously weird if our friends on the other side didnt turn up to say hello,at least now and again. some of the nicest people I have met are dead! axe


There are other aspects of the incident which did indicate there was in fact "another side"... Liam attempted to move towards the enitity (my F-I-L) but was motioned back... and told he could not come to this side... Shamans, seanachies, spritualist??? What do I know... I am just a guilt ridden Catholic boy from the wrong side of the track in Belfast. I do know that when little things around my house begin to go hooters up, broken shoe laces, buttons falling off, cups falling and breaking... you know the stuff... we put a small saucer of milk laced with John Powers whiskey on shelf on the bookcase in the living room. Next day the milk and whiskey is gone and the little annoyances stop. The "wee" people and Liam and myself would call them, do not like to be ignored... (true story incidentally....) Gene...

[Archive Note: Gene Kincaid, former U.S. Intell RV]


We kept lots and lots and lots of stats for lots and lots of reasons. There were folks who believed we were in contract with the devil and others who looked at us as complete nuts altogether. Some folks worried about whether we were hurting our viewers (remember the comment on short term memory loss - ''you do remember don't you?) and we had to keep records of each session and the condition of the viewer prior/during/and after each session. We working in the intelligence business so we had lots and lots of records on our reports which could then be compared with other intelligence systems and methods...yes we had great records and like all government records, when the organization closed up shop the records were wrapped up neatly and floated around the intel community for a while until they found a home in the deeper bowels of the CIA where they rest today. A serious review is being conducted to determine which files can be released and when. I expect you will see something hitting the streets around the Spring of 98... just an estimate mind you based on a little inside info... Gene...

[Archive Note: Gene Kincaid, former U.S. Intell RV]


On that occasion, Liam was looking at something in Moscow or Peking... its really unimportant now... all of the sudden "somebody" approached him in his altered state. This "person" had some messages for Liam which were very confusing and totally disjointed to him. When they were related to me certain words and phrases told me the "person" was undoubtedly my recently departed Father-In-Law.

So. Do you believe in ghosts now? Spiritualism et al? Quite a step beyond the staid and true (and looking more boring by the minute) CRV. ;-) Is there a Swannism for "freakin' weird data?" (Oh, right. The "freakin' weird break," I remember, it's one of those million officially designed ones. You have to write it to the right, drop your pen, dance around the table widdershins and then continue in your session.)

PJ


>So. Do you believe in ghosts now? Spiritualism et al? Quite a step >beyond the staid and true (and looking more boring by the minute) >CRV.

"Ghosts" are not the only conceivable explanation here. Assume (as some have) that _everything_ is non-local in all dimensions and is connected to everything else. (Forgive this linguistic "reification" of unbounded processes.) Apparently humans are able to access this unbounded domain to some degree.

On this basis the events described may "simply" be accesses falling outside of the local R/V paradigm. The format in which they appeared to the viewer then would be his structuring of the data in conformance with his current ontology.

This is not meant as an argument for or against or in between, nor as any sort of invalidation of other ideas. Just keeping options open, in the absence of knowledge.

Tom C


> ;-) Is there a Swannism for "freakin' weird data?" (Oh, right. > The >"freakin' weird break," I remember, it's one of those million >officially designed ones. You have to write it to the right, drop >your pen, dance around the table widdershins and then continue in >your session.)

Oops, sorry PJ--you've gotten mixed up with Farsight...

Paul

[Archive Note: Paul Smith, former U.S. Intell RV]
-------------

Moderator's note: I'll forgive you the one-liner and politics in the same message. Maybe. Maybe Farsight is just having a lot more fun than everybody else is. Actually they're quite colorful and have spawned many ideas in me. Such as, I think maybe I should hire myself out as a monitor who gives the Viewer those infamous massages before the session. After all, there can't be that many people who know CRV well AND are good at bodywork. Will I need a different business license for that? Maybe _I_ should charge a few grand for a week of that. Hmmmn..... this has potential. -- PJ ;-}


> "Ghosts" are not the only conceivable explanation here.

Quite true. However, the thing to remember is that disembodied people are still same people. So nothing to get "all in a dander about."

Rob


Hi PJ;

I was working ERV, not CRV, so I did not have to call "freakin weird break." Since from the answers on the net from Gene's post, it appears nobody really thinks it strange that I was talking to a dead person, whom I did not know when he was alive, I have another one for you.

If you have read DM's book,you will recall his story about the time he worked "the Arc of the Covenent" (ATC). I worked ERV with Ed Dames as the monitor. When I arrived on site I identified some sort of storage thing containing power or something. What really attracted me were the wierd entities guarding the box. I remember thinking this is another one of Ed's weird sites. The entities were around nine feet tall with wings. I figgered "what the hell, as long as I am here I might as well talk to these entities, aliens or whatever." Now normally when I "talk" to someone while RVing I do not believe they are aware consciously, that I am there. This big guy knew I was there, he just did not give a damn. I say big guy, however I did not get any impression of any gender. I asked him what he (I'll use the male pronoun to simplify) he was doing. He told me he was here. I asked him why he was here. He told me he was here because he was meant to be here. I asked him who told him to be here. He told me He was told to be here (a problem in communication obviously). I asked him why he did not leave. He did not comprehend my question. He repeated he was told to be here. There was absolutely no concept of not doing whatever, whoever told him to do. It was obvious we were not getting anywhere fast. We were just too different. I sensed no emotions or feelings on his part. Definitely no compassion. If whoever told him to be there, told him to rip my head off, he would have done it. I think he could have done it right there in the ether. I called end site.

When Ed told me the target, I believed I had missed the ATC. When I returned to my normal semi-lucid state, I discussed the sesion with Paul. Paul reminded me that the ATC was guarded by Angels. Was I talking to an Angel? I do not know. It certainly did not meet my expectations of what I thought an Angel should be. You know loving, caring, nuturing (kinda like an Irish mother).

One other thing. Ed was so fascinated by my reporting back on the entity, he never did move me to the ATC. So really even if I was talking to an Angel I missed the target.

I think I will call one of those freakin weird breaks and sign off.

thanks everybody and

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]


OK, I've resisted long enough, here goes.

It is not unusual that RV and Readers would start to pick up on various messages from the other side. Transmediumship is merely an extension of Reading and RV work. The same perceptual equipment is used and the mind utilizes the information in the same way as it would information that is perceieved through RV or Reading information. The difference is that the information is in an "active" form and not in a static form. Therefore, it is interpreted more linearly by the mind. There is a path of travel of impressions through the energetic field and into the subconscious mind, through the filter to the conscious awareness.

Channeling is nothing more than an extension of the former two. It is perceived information that is impressed a bit differently, but the mechanics and the minds ability to put that information through uses the same kinds of stuff. The biggest difference is in the control of the information flow.

Good luck and don't worry about it, it can't hurt you and random episodes will likely pass as you hone your skills. The mind is just out there alot in the beginning and the ability to focus is a moving target. Sometimes it rests there and sometimes it rests here. The main consideration is that it too is a learned skill.

Rob


Oh "it" can hurt you... most definitely it can hurt you... in PJ's private forum I have told her of another experience with some "entities which were far from friendly and far from harmless... I was placed in great danger in my dealings with them... believe me "it" is not a benign thing... it can hurt you...! Gene...

[Archive Note: Gene Kincaid, former U.S. Intell RV]


>through...Go figure...huh?? OK..net buddies take your best shots... >Gene..

Are we supposed to find this story out of the ordinary?

I was once having a conversation with a friend, and right in the middle of her statement, she paused, articulated one sentence which just happened to provide me with some information I'd been seeking, and then continued with the conversation as if nothing had happened. Because I didn't want to explain *why* I'd been seeking the information, or what it meant exactly, I never told her she'd "channeled" for me. But she did.

Library angels come in all forms. ;-)

Skye


First, a note of appreciation to the "pros" for using the Net as the medium for sharing RV information unavailable elsewhere.

Hopefully, the following two notes won't be boring or redundant. I'm interested in feedback in the event that something truly other than "ordinary" otherworldly processes are at work.

Item One: Several days ago, using the old-fashioned picture-in-envelope routine prepared by a friend, I performed my first RV session. Solo, not even a hint of what the target was. I used very simple protocols I synthesized from available information. Among the impressions were: red, cold, white, oblong, dome-like on top with some type of wheeled vehicle in front of dome thing.

The target was a picture of the surface of Mars taken from a probe, cut out of an old National Geographic magazine. It seemed as if I was somewhat correct and somewhat analytical...the picture itself was oblong and had a white border. It was just a surface close-up. I dropped the picture accidentally and when I picked it up, I saw there was another picture on the reverse side---an artist's conception of a possible future Mars base, done in red and white, with a geodesic dome on the ground, in front of which was a 4-wheeled vehicle! Is this garbling of dual information O.K. or was it just a lousy target?

Second item: in a dream I had last night, I picked up my car phone when it rang (surprised at it ringing, as I did not have it turned on) and the caller was... ME 60 years in the future! My own voice, chuckling and saying words to the effect "You're on the right road." While I know there are several possible valid interpretations, I sense this somehow relates to my interest in RV.

Comments welcome but not expected. Thanks again to fire and all for the work.

George K


> 4-wheeled vehicle! Is this garbling of dual information O.K. or was > it just a lousy target? > Second item: in a dream I had last night, I picked up my car phone

Hiya George

Sounds like a successfull first session to me, as far as the magazine target dualism, you probably hit the nail on the head. I believe it was Joe who suggested that when cutting targets out of a magizine, that it is best to paste the target down on a piece of paper, so as to help garuntee that the opposite side of the target doesn't "bleed" through into your data.

I believe dreams have to be interperted on a personal level.

John


> Is this garbling of dual information O.K. or was it just a lousy target?

Hi George;

Good job. Lousy Target. OK now here comes the but. I will try to tie together three threads of information which have been seen here a lot recently and which IMO have an effect on your results. First; as Joe has mentioned several times is INTENT. Your intent was to view what was in the envelope (a two sided picture). This you did. Had your intent been to go to where the feedback came from, you MAY have gone to Mars. That may not be real clear, but it is early in the AM here in Europe and my maintenance level of caffine is down. FEAR of Failure can play a part in this also at least IMHO. We are afraid of missing the target so we go for what we perceive to be the easy target. Your subconscious may believe it is easier to remote view the envelope or the feedback than going to Mars. (In my opinion it isn't.) I have known people to RV a Nat Geo Mag picture and report back info identifying rips and folds in the picture. A third factor, and one that has not got much network time, is the desire to please. This happens primarily when you are working with a monitor and want to please him/her or have him think well of you. This may be dysfunctional family spill over, so those of you from "normal" (what ever the hell that means) families may never have experienced it.

One thing you might try is approximately 15 minutes prior to working a site , tell your subconscious what your intent is either orally or in writing. Then forget about it. Do not let it become a distrator. My subconscious has a good memory (but it cannot spell) so I do not need to do anything else.

>Second item: in a dream I had last night

George; I think you may discover several small unusual things beginning to happen. Most changes so small that you might not even notice them. I do not claim to be an expert on dreams. My wife is a Native American. I believe they put a good deal of faith in dreams as being messages from the "other world." I would caution you to consider these things as symbols rather than facts. What I mean is if you think you are now sure to be alive in 60 years you might be tempted to do dangerous things such as driving on freeway off ramps and wearing orange to Irish pubs on St Pats day.

Welcome aboard. Enjoy your journey. Ignore my spelling

and of course

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]


Thanks Liam, for responding to the two questions down below. They were both mine. I kinda like to ask these little detail questions from time to time, so here is another.

> I had been in the "control room" with Skip monitoring Joe during > some amazing sessions. One of the things Skip always checked was > Joe's polarity. When Skip told us to reverse our polarity, I > remembered Joe and just did what I normally did before beginning an > ERV session. It worked.

Does the polarity shift have any physical feeling that goes along with it? Shivers, Hot flash, warm feeling, etc?

Irish/German Alzheimers Club Member in Good standing.

> > One person had an apple for a target. He did not identify the apple > but he/she identified what was around the apple. He wanted to know > if that was a good session. Ingo calls that "near target."

Not quite, it was a hypothetical. I was trying to ask, if a large portion of the data had more to do with the targets' surroundings and a small amount of data was about the target itself, was the None target data (about the surroundings) considered good data? Also, if it is good, can it be counted as such in a data base?

> > Someone else went back to a previous target during a viewing and > wanted to know if anyone else had a similar experience. > > Very, very rarely. Having said that I had that experience last week. > While doing an ERV session, the site reminded me of an operational > site I had worked about 12 years earlier. I had not thought of the > previous site in 12 years, but there it was. It pulled me off the > present target I was working and I had to abort the session. These still seem to happen often for what ever reason.

I did take your advice about using the discriptors for an AOL, just to try it. It worked very well. The information I got applied directly to the history of the Target. Real Neat! Thanks

PaulF


>>... Wonder if it was expedient/wise/PC or otherwise a good idea to not give the real session data to "the customer" and instead create a slightly altered version? snip Then I wondered that if that had ever been done, could any of them admit it? Probably not.
<<<<<<It was done constantly.

I feel compelled to make some comments about this. Lyn MUST be talking about the late days of the project when the Huns were at the gate. In my 3and 1/2 years with the project this never happened. I say again THIS NEVER HAPPENED. I also reviewed most of the project missions going back to the start of the project and what Joe, Mel and others viewed was written up by Skip, as reported, and given to the customer. There was no editing to make the information PC. Skip Atwater is one of the most honorable people I know. He is also an intelligence professional. We are in a business where reporting wrong information can cost lives. A Commander of the project for three years, Brian.... was like Skip, a man of the highest integrity and moral courage. I know Brian never signed his name to anything that was less than the whole truth. I never signed my name to anything that was edited to make it more palatable to a customer or the powers that be or were. The people I was associated with at the project were not only talented but moral, honest, and brave. Joe, Paul, and Skip would have had no problem telling anyone who ordered them to change a report "with all due respect sir, go piss up a rope." (sorry PJ. I was bad, but I am not going to delete it). If I ever told Gene to change a report because someone might not like it, he would have become violent, and he is a mighty big guy (although very kind hearted and intelligent, like all the Irish).

Towards the end of my time with the project, I was pressured on two occasions, not to report information. On one occasion another agency had information contrary to the position taken by the agency we worked for. We did the site and verified the other agencies info. Gene and Skip provided a copy of the report to the other agency at the same time I gave the original to the agency we worked for. It made our bosses mad, but the truth got out. On the second ocassion, after arguing for hours, I pointed out that if the information was not passed and lives were lost, someone might leak that information inside the intelligence communitty and then he would have to explain why he had sat on critical information. That report went out also.

I will get off my soap box. With Lyn and I both up there it was getting pretty crowded. Obviously the topic hit a nerve with both Lyn and I. Once again I cannot speak to the last eight years of the project, but during the time I was associated with it reports WERE NOT ALTERED and the information WAS REPORTED.

Best wishes and

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]


Perhaps its not my place to talk about ethics in RV, I am only one person. But, I would like to address an opinion that may add to the discussion. In my view, There is an obligation of readers and viewers to be certain that the integrity of the information is present in every case. If you are doing so and being employed or even asked for free to look at the important aspects of a project or a person. There is an expectation of clarity. The dilema rests in the stating of potentially devistating information that may not be related directly to the target in question or that may cause the person some harm. Then it becomes an integrity issue. As I don't get paid to present information, I generally do so without censoring. However, there have been times where some of the information would not be condusive to a naturally occuring situation or the person was so fragile emotionally that the knowledge of such information would completely devistate them, beyond the event itself. I must admit that I have presented the information in terms that were easier to accept and then followed it up with options that were also present and discussing some potential outcomes, leaving the person more empowered.

I have no answers only a caution for all of us to honestly look at what we find and understand it clearly enough to explain it in terms that are as accurately as they can be. Then make your decisions.

Rob


I have to take Liam's side on this one Lyn... I was not there when the incident you noted in your report was alleged to have occurred but I can tell you that many many heated sessions behind closed doors were conducted between myself, Ed and the Ops boss on the analysis of data provided by the viewers. It was never an argument on whether it should go forward but rather arguments on what the images meant or whether we should continue to go back to the target for more information... changing the data was out of the question. As intelligence officers we learned that in our cribs... never allow your report to be changed by others... we honored this tenet of our business even in the ga ga world of Sunstreak... Maybe the circumstances were misread by you or you may have only understood a piece of what was happening... remember... it was policy to keep almost everything from the viewers... Regards old pard...Gene...

[Archive Note: Gene Kincaid, former U.S. Intell RV]


With respect to this whole question of "what do you report/what do you not report/are you responsible for what is done with the information you report," I feel compelled to note that scores of thousands of Americans confront these questions every day in executing their duties supporting the intelligence requirements of the federal government, as well as of state and local law enforcement. In virtually every case, I would suggest, the answer has already been decided: You report EVERYTHING you get, and you leave it up to the decision makers as to how the information is used.

This is, perhaps, not a popular answer in some quarters. But the fact of the matter is, letting intelligence personnel report what they thought was appropriate to report, while withholding data when they deem appropriate would be a recipe for national disaster. Decision makers HAVE to work with as full a picture as they can get, or they make the wrong decisions--or no decisions--when something else should have been decided. It would be the equivalent to your nervous system telling your brain that you weren't thirsty when you were about to die of dehydration.

Sure, there are occasional abuses of this information--leaders make mistakes, or are corrupt, or whatever. But in all but a few cases, trust is generally deserved.

This is somewhat different, of course, when one is remote viewing in the private domain. It is less easy to anticipate where the loyalties or agendas of those tasking remote viewers lie. However, if it's a matter of business, one owes the best product one can provide to the person who has paid for that product. Anything less would be a breach of business ethics.

If one suspects the motives or goals of one's employer or client, Skye's suggestion is right on the mark:

>I'd suggest that if you can't trust the people you're providing info >to...perhaps you shouldn't work for them.

>From my experience, in remote viewing projects it's generally easy enough to tell if what you're being asked to do is something you really ought to be doing.

Regards,

Paul

[Archive Note: Paul Smith, former U.S. Intell RV]


Hi Charles and all;

Liam here, just thought I would throw in my two cents worth. As far as viewers (at least CRVers) are concerned I think the question is academic. Fun to talk about but not realistic. If, while working CRV, I attempt to filter every piece of information through a moral barometer, I would be in AOL drive before I was half through stage 1. In addition, when I am on target, I am usualy so zonked that fine moral decisions may be beyond me.

The real moral decisions are made first by the monitor/analyst and next by the ops officer and commander. Since the viewer is deliberately kept in the dark, they have access to much more information on which to base a moral deceision.

ERVers have a little more control over what they report. Not to report something may not put them in AOL drive. Even so, to make a deceision not to report something may be more dangerous and morally wrong than to report it.

For me it comes down to two factors. First I almost always trusted the monitor and operations Officer. I believed the people who tasked us were the good guys. Second, My brain may not always know what is right or wrong, but there is a point about three inches behind my belley button that acts up when I try rationalize immoral behavior. I try to listen to that.

Like Gene, I am a guilt ridden Irish catholic. I do not need one more thing to obsess over. As Lyn said, we all did our best. The point behind my belly button is not acting up. I must have something right.

Best wishes all and

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]


OK... little air clearing here... I was one of the military types at the military RV unit. I was not there from day one nor was I there when it closed... I was there somewhere along the middle... I had access to all the files from my predecessors and lots and lots of files from our consumers and our oversight people. At no time ... let me repeat that for those who read too fast to understand what they are reading... AT NO TIME did I ever perceive that what we were doing was wrong, improper or incorrect. In fact, I looked at it as simply one more of the many jobs I had as a "silent warrior" (one who does not seek nor receive credit for jobs well done)... I was a dedicated silent warrior who served my adopted country well both in peace and war. I have a very strong sense of right and wrong and my personal integrity weather vane is rarely wrong. I was never asked to do anything that challenged my strong sense of right or wrong nor raised any questions on the absolute necessity of these missions. More important, I never felt at any point that I was challenging any of the basic human rights or any of the precepts of our own Constitution. What we did was correct, proper, well controlled with literally dozens of echelons of oversight and checks and balances to prevent us from becoming rogue elephants. We had some bad apples and we handled them as best we could but they never caused our mandates to be challenged, they were just victims of over inflated egos and a lack of perception of what we were supposed to be doing. I know it never happened before I got there (I reviewed the files very closely) and it never happened while I was there (about two years worth). What happened after I left I can only comment upon second hand and I will not be caught in that trap. I do know the basic protocols prevented viewers from knowing more than about 10% of what was going on therefore they were not knowledgeable of about 90% of the daily operations of the unit. If that changed after I left... shame on them. I have no sense of shame for what I did, no sense that I may have stepped over the line and certainly no fear (other than some still existent security regulations) in talking about my experiences. I was proud of my participation and honored to be selected. OK... (he steps down off his soap box to loud applause from the far right which is ironic because he is a socialist at heart)... Regardz... Gene

[Archive Note: Gene Kincaid, former U.S. Intell RV]


END ARCHIVE 31
October 1997

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