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Public Viewer Email Group
Archive 049
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This is an archive file of the public Viewer [VWR] email list. This list is sponsored by the private Viewer Forum, hosted by Paradigm Systems and Design, and owned and operated by PJ Gaenir. It is dedicated to discussion of the practical aspects, theories and experience of formal psychic methodologies such as Controlled Remote Viewing, and independent efforts by the public interested in working under the formal RV protocol (the set of rules which define "remote viewing" as the term was coined in a science lab). You can find details, rules, and a form for joining the email group here. The list is moderated during operation and archiving. I remove last names and detail locations of contributors (within the archives) for privacy, and signatures for space conservation. I have added notes marking the posts from former U.S. intelligence remote viewers. Archiving of posts is done manually and may not include all posts.

This is the forty-ninth archive.


October 1997
BEGIN ARCHIVE 49

I have caught myself ducking my head while sitting at my desk, as I viewed the low ceilings in the corridors of an egyptian pyramid.

But in a recent session, I did a deep mind probe on a subject for data and viewing an object he was carrying. It was the way I felt afterwards that was unusual. I felt dazed and exterior. My writing was nearly illegible. My thinking was muddled, I couldn't think of my next step, and I sat staring at the papers in front of me. I wasn't much for conversation either. These sensations continued for roughly an hour after session. Could someone offer feedback on what occurred? I have experienced bi-location, but this seemed so much more intense.

Thank you for any information you can provide.

Mark


>But in a recent session, I did a deep mind probe on a subject for data >and viewing an object he was carrying.

Please forgive me--this is not intended as a hostile question--but what the heck is a "deep mind probe," anyway!? I've heard the term a number of times, think it's some kind of technique taught by Courtney Brown, but am unsure of what it's point is and how it's performed. We had nothing in the Ft. Meade unit that would have been described by such a term as far as I can recall...

It was the way I felt >afterwards that was unusual. I felt dazed and exterior. My writing was >nearly illegible. My thinking was muddled, I couldn't think of my next >step, and I sat staring at the papers in front of me. I wasn't much for >conversation either. These sensations continued for roughly an hour >after session.

This sounds like me after ANY reasonably good session. When my handwriting falls apart (and it's pretty bad to begin with), I know I've arrived.<g> This in fact describes the "zonked" experience that "Curran" has talked about. Besides the physical activity mentioned in previous posts, I find that the process of typing up a detailed summary actually helps--I think it has to do with getting down on paper what's still floating around in your head, bringing closure to the session and allowing you to "let go" of the signal line and return to relative normalcy (stress on the "relative" :-). And for some reason, the typing seems to work better than doing it by longhand--perhaps more of a left brain process.

Viel Glueck! Paul

[Archive Note: Paul Smith, former U.S. Intell RV]

-------
Moderator's Note: Paul, glad you asked. I've wondered myself. I had thought that the "deep mind probe" referred to one the various kinds of personality profiling (or whatever you want to call it) RV. But then someone mentioned that TFI was teaching this to students their third day in training -- and well you know, none of the psychological targeting could be reasonably taught or performed then, so they are obviously talking about something else. I keep meaning to ask somebody from TFI to explain it and keep forgetting. -- PJ


>>But in a recent session, I did a deep mind probe on a subject for data >>and viewing an object he was carrying.

Paul replied
>Please forgive me--this is not intended as a hostile question - but what the heck is a "deep mind probe" anyway .......

then Rick gently elbows his way in:

Being SRV trained, I'll give it to you in "SRVeese". In SRV, the Phase 4 matrix has the following headings at the top of each page.

Senses/Magnitudes/Viewer Feeling/Emotionals/Physicals/Subspace/Concepts/Guided Deduction/ Deduction

Hopefully, target contact has increased at this stage. "Level 1" and "Level 2" movement exercises will already have occurred. A "level 3" movement exercise known as "cueing" is given by the monitor (in the mid to latter part of Phase 4). Let's say the target is a person ("subject"). If the viewer has already detected a subject at the target site, the monitor instructs the viewer to put the word "subject" under the physicals column and to put the phrase "deep mind probe" under the concepts column. The viewer then briefly probes each entry with the pen and enters data under the appropriate column in the matrix.

I might get data such as: under concepts---> determined, political, ambitious under emotions---> fearful, anxious (and so on)

My experience with using this is that it is not really "deep", but that could come from the relative inexperience of 50 or so sessions. And, yes, "deep mind probe" is taught somewhere around the 3rd day of the introductory SRV course.

If there is a CRV equivalent to this, or anything close, I'd be interested to know of it.

By the way, there is the odd time that I find barely restrained denigration of other schools of RV. And, yes, that's been explained somewhat. But, for better or worse, some of us learned to do this elsewhere. That's just a fact, and there'll be more of that as we see the new schools popping up everywhere.

I find it takes a bit of effort not "to wear" other's negative responses to other schools. (I sometimes think twice about posting.) I must be successful in not wearing it -- I'm still here. ;<)

I love it here because it gives me the opportunity to broaden my horizons by comparing and contrasting SRV with CRV.

Rick S

--------
Moderator's Note: Go for it Rick -- give me a bad time, it's usually me being pointed and a little nagging does help keep me in line. References or attitudes other than mine are mostly due to the fact that the list is technically directed toward RV Protocol / CRV stuff -- SRV/TRV fitting into neither of those "traditional" categories (for better or worse) (technically, not into what some consider RV period), although even self-taught psi work can fit within the protocol, which is why we try to encourage people learning on their own, via online stuff or videos or whatever, to participate and ask questions. Some of this is kind of like what I call "cultural prejudices" -- it isn't based on the stripes one wears for their 'people,' but rather, is based on the different attitudes/approaches had and the difficulty fitting some of them comfortably into the same mental set. Time heals some of that, as does exposure. I am MUCH more mellow than I used to be on the subject, mostly because I finally met SRV/TRV people who talked about RV rather than aliens. (Quite seriously, this is really why.) As more people with those and other backgrounds participate, I'm forced to take them seriously as individuals, which kind of opens me up a little more all the time to the other aspects of things. Sorry if I'm spikey about it sometimes. Please do feel welcome to mention it -- as you did. A little social pressure to behave won't hurt me. -- PJ


Shame on you Paul, and you too PJ. I am surprised neither of you recoginized the deep mind probe. That is probably because the title was shortened by the author. If you heard the whole title I am sure you would recognize this technique. The whole and scientifically correct title is the "Vulcan Deep Mind Probe." Now I can see lights going on in your head. Just one more reason why Ingo insisted that all terms used in RV were rigorously defined.

In a somewhat more serious note, the only things I can compare this to is EI (emotional Impact) in stage 4 of CRV or the ability in ERV to ask a person, in the ether, a question. In ERV this is a learned process and definitely not done unless the ERVer is experienced. In CRV it is in stage 4, and so again is only done by someone who has been involved in CRV for quite a while. Both of the above produce an abundance of information, but neither could, IMO, be called a deep probe.

>>It was the way I felt >>afterwards that was unusual. I felt dazed and exterior. My writing was >>nearly illegible. My thinking was muddled, I couldn't think of my next >>step, and I sat staring at the papers in front of me. I wasn't much for >>conversation either. These sensations continued for roughly an hour >>after session.

I think the above is a pretty good discription of most RVers after a good session. Writing the summary afterward, I printed the information. This way it might be at least semi readable. My spelling, which you may have noticed is poor on a good day, gets even worse during and after a session. During a session, after and sometimes during stage 2, I printed, rather than write. This made the information more readable and also served to slow the signal line down a little bit. But reviewing a session afterwards I found that I went from printing to writing to printing and back to writing.

After writing the summary, I had a need to get out into the open. There was a small lake close to the project. I would walk around the lake and gradually come back to this reality. This was pleasant in the summer, but colder than a money lender's heart in January.

Best Wishes

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]


>>>But in a recent session, I did a deep mind probe on a subject for >>>data and viewing an object he was carrying.

Just checked with my wife and she assures me that it is a "Vulcan Mind MELD" and not a "Vulcan Mind Probe."

:) Joe

[Archive Note: Joseph McMoneagle, former U.S. Intell RV]


>I find it takes a bit of effort not "to wear" other's negative >responses to other schools. (I sometimes think twice about posting.) >I must be successful in not wearing it -- I'm still here. ;<)

Hi Rick,

Very good point. I apologize if I have ever denigrated any school of RV. I think any folks from the old unit would agree that what counts is results and consistency. I am a CRVer and an ERVer. I actually perfer ERV. My wife does something which I once thought was a cross bertween CRV and ERV, but now know, thanks to this list, is something entirely different. If I could figure out how she remote views, I would adapt it as mine own. I was originally going to call what she does SSFWRV (semi-structured free wheeling RV), but then I figured there are already too many different schools out there to make any sense of any more letters

>I love it here because it gives me the opportunity to broaden my >horizons by comparing and contrasting SRV with CRV.

Rick keep coming back, and keep posting. I get a hell of a lot out of what you say. Plus by reading your posts my vocabulary is getting better, but my spelling still sucks.

>Moderator's Note: Go for it Rick -- give me a bad time,

Rick, I think you really should give her a bad time. I would, but then you are more of a gentleman than I am.

Best Wishes

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]


Recent responses for shedding that after session zonked feeling and returning to reality have been helpful and appreciated. Can you offer any suggestions to the Viewer/Monitor for backing away from this type of consciousness link?

Mark


> Recent responses for shedding that after session zonked feeling and > returning to reality have been helpful and appreciated. Can you offer > any suggestions to the Viewer/Monitor for backing away from this type > of consciousness link?

Only the Reader has to back away, as the Monitor endeavors to not make the link in the first place. There are several ways of ensuring this. One is to create a well grounded distraction, where the Reader must focus all of their attention on something else. Usually this would mean multi-sensory stimulation is some well grounded activity where the person is forced to disconnect, move completely out of alpha and engage their total attention. This is really helpful. The Monitors job would be to task the Reader in getting to the place where the Reader is majoritively back.

For me, I go solo alot, I schedule my time in session late in the evening. I can do my read disconnect by having a snack and immediately go to bed for some rest. I sleep very deeply normally, I have teen age boys and when I get up usually a good run with one of them is enough to keep me from mentally creeping back.

Rob


Paul,

Since I've asked the same question and live right here in Atlanta, I'll repeat what I've been told.

A "deep mind probe" is targeting and individual and then "probing" the "conceptuals" column to see what comes to you. It would seem that this is somehow supposed to be similar to probing the "SS" column used in Lyn's phase 4 or perhaps the older EI column found in the stage 4 of some of the Ingo trained military viewers. From the Far Sight sessions I've seen (and how I was so honored is a long story), doing this tyupe of technique gets you some very general data which I would put down as something akin to matching AOL (assuming the SRV session in question is done in a structure that matches CRV). After all, IF it were a real mind probe it would seem that propositional information (like names) would be obtainable.

For anyone reading this post that can not follow the references to phase/stage 4 and columns, it is enough to say that these terms are used to order a session into a structure. Different teachers have slightly different terms. Past that, Paul can explain whatever he feels is unclear.

BTW, please do not take this post to endorse the "deep mind probe". I'm just relaying some info.

Charles

----------
Moderator's Note: The "EI" column in formal Swann structure is the same concept but used with the acronym "SI" in Buchanan's CRV training. EI means "Emotional Impression," (or "Impact" -- I keep getting those mixed up -- frankly the intensity of it is probably a better determinor of that) and SI means "Site Impressions." (I think "SS" mentioned above may be just a mis-memory, either that or Lyn has changed this.) FYI this is the column in the Stage/Phase 4 "Matrix" (a list of columns across a piece of paper) where you write down senses/impressions you have of "perception and emotions which are being experienced AT the site." In other words, they are not YOUR emotions or what have you -- they are those had by someone/thing *at the target site itself.* Stage/Phase 4 is where the majority of real CRV is done, and this is the stage that deals strongly with conceptuals, proper names, things -- and of course, both your own feelings and the things you sense from the target. Stage/Phase 4 is where psychological and emotional data first comes into real perception, and is the place where most human/mental-targeting work would probably done. Hope that explains at least some of it.... -- PJ


Recent responses for shedding that after session zonked feeling and returning to reality have been helpful and appreciated. Can you offer any suggestions to the Viewer/Monitor for backing away from this type of consciousness link?

Nancy replies: Dear Mark, I have some experience with this stuff because I, too, am very sensitive to impressions as you seem to be. One thing you can do is practice pulling your energy in. If you are like me you send or allow your energy to get too diffused from the body and this renders you somewhat vulnerable. The way to practice is to sit quietly, not connected with a session, do your cool down or whatever you do to get ready for a session, and then notice where your energy is. First you have to become aware where it is before you can work with it. Try pulling it in close to the body, and then experiment with variations of distance, and see how they feel. When you find a "set" that feels comfortable, put it on automatic and leave it, go on with your day. You may have formed a habit of having that diffused state, so it will be a matter of forming a new habit by practice. The other thing about energy is that you may not have your energy core in the center of the body. Like the other exercise, just get a sense of where it is, and bring it to center, place on auto, etc.

Another thing is to take very good care of the body. Vitamins, exercise, cleansing, rest, foods that are jet fuel for you, especially raw fruits and veggies, and let junk food, sugar and sweets go. Also, don't smoke! Anything! We have to do these things because the body is where the mind resides, and to be able to support the work the body must be strong. Good health is not just not being sick! In real vital health the body disappears, so to speak, and becomes just what it is, A VEHICLE, and the work can take place unimpeded. You might be surprised how much more easily you "move" in an RV session when you are feeling really good. It can't hurt to try it, anyway..... I find these things necessary to me for good performance in both RV and my healing work. Perhaps you will find them helpful as well.

I realize this type of comments may not be politically correct on this list. I assert that it is smack on target and appropriate for the list, because physical health directly affects accuracy and endurance in mental work. And I've had my vitamins and my energy drink this morning, so if anybody wants to roast me, I'm ready. :-)

Hope this has been helpful.

Nancy A


>I think one of the hardest things in CRV to me is having to write >stuff while you are at a target. I know we have to make drawings etc, >but everything else I use a hand-held tape recorder and transcribe >later. Going back and forth is pretty exhausting to me. What do you >all think of the recorder idea?

Hi Nancy;

At the military unit, we used a recorder to tape the ERV sessions. This freed the monitor from having to take detailed notes, and eliminated the necessity of relying completely on the memory of the ERVer.

CRV however, is different. Ingo believed that something was not real until it was written down (almost a reverse of Plato). I am not sure, but I think when I am writting a word, it helps trigger the next word/impression. I am not quite sure how you would do the stage 4 matrix without writing. Also, I am probably prejudiced by Ingo, when i review a written session, it has more of a reality to it.

Even with ERV, we eventually had the viewer do a written summary after the session.

These are just my thoughts. If it works for you, then it is obviously correct for you.

Best Wishes

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]

--------
Moderator's Note: As I was taught theory, one of the reasons for physically writing things down is that it creates a hard-wired physiological connection between conscious/subconscious and with the signal line. That's why Viewers write it, say it, see it, hear it, when they're collecting data -- to provide as much feedback input to their bodies (subconscious) as possible. Clearly, this forces a certain level of consciousness, if you must be writing... not the same as really 'tuning in and spacing out'.... in CRV you can only tune in / space out within the boundaries of staying in structure and writing things in the columns and so on. (Though I confess I've a tendency to say everything is a "Stage 4.5" and just write it as an endless paragraph. ;-) So sue me, I'm a rebel. Don't worry Paul, I'll make those sessions look JUST like Ingo would like... <wicked editorial laugh>) Doesn't mean that 'spacing out' is bad. If it works, hey, don't fix it if it ain't broke. It isn't CRV but there's certainly no law than everything has to be. :-) -- PJ


Many of you who have been following the discussions here will find much of interest on this web page. Real people are really looking now into the nature of consciousness, the mechanisms of remote viewing, the problem of time, and on & on. Many, maybe most of them, haven't got it right, but they are truly looking. I'd say this is an encouraging scene. No doubt some of you are familiar with this material. But for sure some aren't. Yet. The address is http://www.hia.com/hia/pcr/tucson.html

(Many links to relevant web sites are also on this page.)

I quote, just to get y'all rolling:

"Many of the papers at this conference in neuro and cognitive science presented amazingly effective techniques for manipulating and controlling states of consciousness. The potentials for these techniques of mind-control to be used in the field on unsuspecting naive populations in "nonlethal warfare" are awesome to behold and contemplate. They can be and will be easily misused by authoritarian immoral power structures. These techniques not only involve manipulation by drugs and ordinary electromagnetic, sound and kinaesthetic signals as in subliminal television broadcasting and virtual reality transmission via the World Wide Web of the Internet, but also purport to involve quantum action at a distance in the reports on psychokinesis, telepathy and remote viewing. Murray Gell-Mann in his book, The Quark and The Jaguar vehemently denies the reality of the quantum voodoo that Einstein called "telepathic" and "spooky". He says remote viewing is "the story distorted", but he is lulling the public into a false sense of security. We will see below that E. J. Squires punches holes in Gell-Mann's argument. It is important to note in in this context that Cornell's D. J. Bem, initially a skeptic and a magician like James Randi, gave an orthodox "meta-analysis" showing that Ganzfeld telepathy is a real replicable effect!"

Just a teaser. There's much more, and it's all over the map.

The home page of this web site is http://www.stardrive.org/title.html . On it I find this:

"Another paper presented at the Vigier conference by physicist and National Book Award winner, Dr.Fred Alan Wolf, expands upon the groundbreaking work of S.F. State bio-physicist, Benjamin Libet. Libet has shown that in some real, physical sense, human consciousness is inherently precognitive. Wolf's paper, "The timing of the conscious experience: a causality violating, two-valued, transactional interpretation of subjective antedating and spatial-temporal projection," clearly indicates that precognition may indeed be an integral facet of consciouness."

Tom C


I just thought of something from years ago that technically, might qualify as dowsing. I'm not sure... maybe it's something else.

From the time I was about 8, I had at least one cassette tape player with me at almost all times. I constantly recorded songs on the radio, people talking, and a few years later, my own songs and singing. At any given time I would have about 20 tapes filled with an eclectic combination of (often partial) stuff. I had this constant problem, all the tapes looked the same, and even if I knew what tape I wanted, I didn't know exactly where the song was on it. So I would pick the tape that felt right from the pile, and then I would put the tape in the recorder in the direction that felt right, and then I would either rewind or fast forward, holding my finger above the stop button and my eyes closed, until I felt it was right to stop it. About 8 out of 10 times I nailed what I was looking for, right down to the second the song began. When I got older I used to do it around friends, if they were looking for a song on a tape in the car or their stereo, I'd do the closing my eyes and "feeling where to stop" thing and find the song. Never really gave it much thought until just now... that maybe that would be considered a form of dowsing.

Of course, childhood is filled with fun memories. I am still willing to swear that I used to jump down the stairs and I could make myself sort of "float a little" before touching the ground....

PJ


To all--

FYI--something that I haven't talked around about much, but would be interesting to this particular thread: I became a Life Member of the American Society of Dowsers in 1988, and started attending the meetings of the then-newly formed Chesapeake Chapter of the ASD up in Baltimore (they met in the Quaker meeting hall). I think they were rather puzzled as to why I was coming, and I didn't explain the reason, which was that we were trying to solve the search problem in RV, and it seemed that dowsing held the most promise. Some of the stuff I learned there and from the ASD Quarterly, plus a number of books proved occasionally successful when modified for our particular circumstances.

I took my kids to a couple of meetings, and they actually had some success in some of the exercises we tried. On another occasion, I took a couple of colleagues from the RV unit and we put on a presentation on map dowsing, covering some of the stuff we had learned (though sanitized of all classified references, of course! ;-). By the time I came up for deployment to the Gulf War, I was president of the chapter. I had four days to clear out, so I think the chapter was a bit nonplussed at the abrupt disappearance of their president. I received a couple of nice, supportive letters from dowsers while I was in the Middle East. I'm sorry that after returning to the DC area at the close of my assignment to the 101st, I never did make it back to chapter meetings, though I wanted to.

A further comment to PJ--while it is true that both Lyn and I teach dowsing as part of the CRV process, the fact of the matter is that it is a tool we introduced, and was not originally part of the structure that Ingo taught. But in the unit, we were called upon to solve problems that basic CRV was not designed to solve, and had to adapt. Dowsing, though not as reliable across the board for us as RV, nevertheless was a useful solution to an operational problem--and it seemed to harmonize very well with CRV. We looked at it as the other side of the RV coin--RV can get you to the target, but can't for the most part tell you where the target is. Dowsing isn't especially useful for providing data about a target, but CAN help enourmously in figuring out where the target is.

Here are some useful sources for info on dowsing:

Bird, Christopher, "The Divining Hand," New Age Press.

The American Society of Dowsers, PO Box 24, Danville, VT 05828, tel. (802) 684-3417 http://www.newhampshire.com/dowsers.org

(The ASD has been mentioned before. But now you have contact info...)

Enjoy, Paul

[Archive Note: Paul Smith, former U.S. Intell RV]

--------
Moderator's Note: Lately things keep popping up that repeat to me that what intell calls CRV is not really what Ingo calls CRV. My impression is that Swann's and Intell's were far more similar in the first 3 stages than the last 3, but you'd know that better than I. In any case, the instructors on the list teach dowsing as part of their CRV training, so it technically falls into the list as topic. To be honest, if I had to choose between skill at dowsing vs. RV, I would take dowsing. But maybe talent is either strong or it is not... PJ


I'm happy here, I found the Firedocs site, and through your web-links found Lyn's site, and began to get an idea of where to begin working a target.

As I was reading Lyn's suggestion that we talk to our SC and ask it to communicate with our hand only, I wondered if this proceedure isn't the same thing as Automatic Writing?

Is this "Talk to the hand" a basic of CRV?

~Back to my Practicing~ Sam

----------
Moderator's Note: Hi Sam. I'd have to see the context his comment was in. But in many cases, beginning Viewers, rather than getting a spontaneous movement in their hand to make an ideogram, will get it elsewhere in their body. Their knee will jerk or something. I think his comment may have applied to directing your intent, or in Ingo theory, "the impact of the signal line upon the body / autonomic nervous sytem," to manifesting in your hand rather than elsewhere in your body. Could be wrong... that's my theory. :-) -- PJ


> As I was reading Lyn's suggestion that we talk to our SC and ask it > to communicate with our hand only, I wondered if this proceedure > isn't the same thing as Automatic Writing?

"Automatic writing", at least in the circles in which I move, is SC-directed writing in which your actual muscle movements are controlled, so that you write in another hand than your usual or even a quite different script. The healer Matthew Manning did a lot of this spontaneously in his youth and one document proved to be in mediaeval Greek. No-one in the UK could decode it so it was sent to the Metropolitan of the Greek Orthodox Church in Athens for translation. This gentleman failed to respond, so eventually it was followed up, whereupon his response was: "I am most grateful and honoured to have been chosen to receive this message. Thankyou !" And that was that.

SC-directed writing where the word or words emerge into your consciousness just as you choose to put pen to paper, so that you write in your own handwriting without knowing what is coming next, is called "guided writing". I was induced into this 14 years ago and it forms one part of an "advanced practices" day of a dowsing course which I now run regularly in West Sussex, UK. Unlike dowsing, not everyone can do this straight off, but most people do get halting single words which on examination turn out to be clues to a longer message. I am probably not a good exponent, but for me it is not as good as dowsing at getting small details and a great deal better for defining the exact tonality and atmosphere of a political, business or group deal or situation.

Dan W


END ARCHIVE 49
October 1997

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