firedocs archives

Public Viewer Email Group
Archive 053
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This is an archive file of the public Viewer [VWR] email list. This list is sponsored by the private Viewer Forum, hosted by Paradigm Systems and Design, and owned and operated by PJ Gaenir. It is dedicated to discussion of the practical aspects, theories and experience of formal psychic methodologies such as Controlled Remote Viewing, and independent efforts by the public interested in working under the formal RV protocol (the set of rules which define "remote viewing" as the term was coined in a science lab). You can find details, rules, and a form for joining the email group here. The list is moderated during operation and archiving. I remove last names and detail locations of contributors (within the archives) for privacy, and signatures for space conservation. I have added notes marking the posts from former U.S. intelligence remote viewers. Archiving of posts is done manually and may not include all posts.

This is the fifty-third archive.


November 1997
BEGIN ARCHIVE 53

In many aspects of psychic work, it would seem that, the greater the need, the greater the result.

Is this true of RV.

MaryD.


>I'm involved with something called Instinctive Nutrition. I saw your >post and, yes, I agree fully that it DOES have everything to do with >this list. I believe that one of the reasons people have so much >difficulty remaining in the ether, snip

Hi All;

Good topic Rick and Nancy. One I have been meaning to post on for a long time. Ingo was a very strong believer in the use of vitamin B pills to replace the vitamins burned up while RVing. I have been taking them for most of a decade, when I remember to. Vitamin B allegedly improves your memory also. But if you are taking pills to improve your memory, how do you remember to take your pills.

Best wishes

may the force be with you

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]

---------
Moderator's Note: There is actual evidence that psi work burns Vitamin B? -- PJ


Hello all,

We looked and looked for the "right" place and nothing jumped out at us until yesterday. We found what seems like the perfect place to live and start a formal CRV school. We have learned better than to jump at the first good thing, though, so we will continue now and use that place as a standard against which to judge new possibilities. We are in Deming, NM tonight, and tomorrow will go to Silver City, NM to see what it is like. Then on to Phoenix on Tuesday. We'll keep you posted.

I have 8 more targets for those of you who want them.

[Archivist Note: The targets are available on the firedocs target practice page.]

Enjoy.

Lyn

[Archive Note: Lyn Buchanan, former U.S. Intell RV]


> >I've suspected for many years that the original basis of prayer was a > >quantum scientific process couched in a generalised dogma cunningly designed > >to transcend time, language and belief systems.

Was it Liam or Gene that said that no one knows why CRV works, that it is just "magic"? That is how I feel about prayer. After years of living in some extremely perilous situations where we ended up sitting on a branch after sawing it off, so to speak, I can testify that prayer, particularly desperate prayer, done in faith with a strong belief system, REALLY WORKS.

Once I related to Lyn how my husband & I, living "by faith" with no certain income in a foreign country while doing social/missionary work many years ago, lost the rent check. This was a disaster in no uncertain terms, and we searched for it frantically, tearing up the house, to no avail. Finally, we actually got into a prone position on the floor, and prayed desperately. We laid out the problem, and then got quiet, trying to "listen" to God for the answer. My husband sat up and said "I just saw the rent check behind the fridge." We jumped up, moved the fridge, and there it was. Lyn responded with something like, "If you know how to pray, you know how to CRV" or that prayer is very akin to RV. Of course, at the time, we had never heard of CRV or knew anything about related subjects.

I could tell a ton of stories much more outstanding, of ways that prayer has just had tremendous results in our lives, and saved the day again and again. I don't know why it works, but it is tied into a belief system that God works. Much like electricity...for those of us who use it, who cares how it works?

Lori

--------
Moderator's Note: I am one of those retentive types who cares at least as much about the 'how it works' as actually doing it. That does not, of course, apply to the 'why it works,' which is anybody's guess. ... Prayer has done some amazing things for me, as well. Although I connote this to individual faith and not so much the deity invoked (e.g., I pray to Archangel Michael -- why not?), it does seem to be quite effective. Some of the "religious experiences" I have heard about sound suspiciously like spontaneous remote viewing. One thing nice about prayer, of course, is that it comes with a sense of awe, humility and gratefulness. A little more of that about RV would be nice. -- PJ


> My subconscious, after all knows all there is to know and it has been > communicating with me pretty darn well, through my life up to now, one way > and another. I think I shall learn _its_ language, rather than asking it to > learn mine.

What I am learning, through tough trial & error, is what Lyn told us from the very beginning: My subconscious has some things it HASN'T been able to communicate very well, and through CRV, it is trying to get some things off its chest. I made the mistake of stopping sessions altogether, instead of continuing and working through it, which left me in the middle of an emotional dilemma, so to speak. Lyn and Linda have been really encouraging in assuring me that this is normal, and telling me to pick up where I left off: "Your subconscious just wants to tell you something; it doesn't want to beat you over the head with it."

Lori

-------
Moderator's Note: But it will if it has to. ;-) -- PJ


Lori wrote: (snip) >...........Lyn responded with something like, "If you know how to >pray, you know how to CRV" or that prayer is very akin to RV.

To which PJ responded: (snip) >......... One thing nice about prayer, of course, is that it comes >with a sense of awe, humility and gratefulness. A little more of >that about RV would be nice.

Liam wrote: (snip) >........I do believe there is a connection >between prayer and psi. It has been my experience that the higher >power (God, Creator, mother nature, cosmic awareness, whatever you >want to call it/she/he/them), normally uses natural means as a way to >achieve spiritual ends. I do not believe HP (higher power) usually >creates or uses only spiritual channels.

Liam wrote: (snip) >IMHO the greatest assest an RVer can have is humility. The biggest >distractor from RV proficiency is ego. (an excellent post from Lyn on >this earlier). Some of the best RVers, Paul Smith, Skip Atwater, and >The Scot Joe Mc are all humble people. IMO the people who have >gotten into trouble with RV are people with out of control egos.

There are many things which can destroy a person's session, but the most insidious one is the NAG (Namer & Guesser) part of the ego which just HAS to jump up and say, "OOOH!! I know what it is!". The tendency to get the perceptions of, say, red and round and to almost automatically say, "a ball", is, at its most basic level, the ego excerting itself. "I have to be in control of this situation." "I have to >name< each perception." "I have to know what the target IS."

By the same token, prayer, in many people's minds, is a system of telling God (or the archangel M., or whoever) what it is that is wrong, what should be done about it, when, how, etc. I would suspect that God gets to hear very few prayers, but hears a lot of instructions. Prayer, to me, is not giving instructions to God. It is a process of opening to God and waiting for Him to give instructions to me.

When we (a group of the unit) were in Key West, doing drug interdiction, a Captain there was very nervous about CRV. He was a fundamental Christian and was afraid that CRV somehow served Satan and was in contradiction to God's will. To his credit, he asked questions before making a judgement. Not everyone will do that. At one point, when he was asking us one of his many questions, the same answer I gave to Lori was appropriate. I told him that CRV was much like prayer - that we open ourselves to a higher knowledge and wait for that knowledge to give us something. The other members who were there laughed and cringed at the idea that I would equate CRV with prayer. I still stand by that feeling, though.

One of the other public trainers who has somewhat disgraced himself in the past year or so was once telling me about his session where his target was God. (He likes to give that target to his students, as well.) He told me all about God speaking to him, what all God told him, and how his new personal knowledge of God had given him increased power and depth of spirit. He knew that I had also received God as a target once, and he asked me how my session had gone. I told him of the wonderful feelings I had had, the inner glow of peace and love, etc. He was sort of getting impatient with me, though. Finally, he asked me, "But what did He say to you? What did He tell you?" Since I was partly reliving the session as I was telling him about it, his question struck me as almost dumb. I laughed. I told him, "You don't understand. When you've been there, you don't have to be told... you know."

I would correct Lori on one small point: I didn't tell her that prayer was like CRV. I told her that CRV was like prayer. You can develop all the protocols and all the methods and all the explanations and all the theories, and they're all nice to practice, to analyze, and to endlessly discuss. Develop all the theories and methods you want - tell students that there have to be so many impressions of a certain type, then it's time to proceed to this stage or that. Set up all the rules and regulations you want. But the fact is that from the Phase 1 ideogram all the way to the "session end", you have to >>receive<< the impressions, not determine what they are going to be. That is what you have to understand about CRV (and prayer), and that is what you have to practice. Once you've been there, you don't have to be told. You know.

BTW: I also am firmly convinced that CRV is >>>like<<< prayer... it is NOT prayer. It is not proof positive of the existance of the soul. It is not omnipotence given to Man. It is just another thing the wonderful mind is capable of doing. I don't want to equate the two, nor would I say that either should be used in place of the other. They are both important, but not interchangeable.

Lyn

[Archive Note: Lyn Buchanan, former U.S. Intell RV]


>>One thing nice about prayer, of course, is that it comes with a >>sense of awe, humility and gratefulness. A little more of that >>about RV would be nice. -- PJ

Hi PJ and everyone;

I have refrained from saying anything on this topic up to this point. But, since Lyn brought it up and then you mentioned it. I thought maybe I should add my 37 cents (inflation) also.

IMHO the greatest assest an RVer can have is humility. The biggest distractor from RV proficiency is ego. (an excellent post from Lyn on this earlier). Some of the best RVers, Paul Smith, Skip Atwater, and The Scot Joe Mc are all humble people. IMO the people who have gotten into trouble with RV are people with out of control egos. Gene and I attempt to be humble but it is very hard for us Irish. If God did not like us so much why did he bless us by making us Irish. But we try to be grateful and frequently gratitude is the first step towards true humility.

Slainte

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]


>>Was it Liam or Gene that said that no one knows why CRV works, that >>it is just "magic"? That is how I feel about prayer. snip

Hi Lori and all;

Actually it was both Gene and I. I do believe there is a connection between prayer and psi. It has been my experience that the higher power (God, Creator, mother nature, cosmic awareness, whatever you want to call it/she/he/them), normally uses natural means as a way to achieve spiritual ends. I do not believe HP usually creates or uses only spiritual channels.

I think psi is a very wide band beam. On that beam are many channels. The ERV and CRV channels are on that beam. They are close together but are definitely separate channels. There are other RV channels there also.

The same channel is used by HP for prayer and meditation. Native Americans (NA) use that beam, different channel, in vision quests and sweat lodges (may account for my belief traditional NAs learn RV faster. They are experienced in using the channel. No Joe no empirical evidence, just experience and gut feeling). BTW intuition and gut feeling use the same beam. Joan of Arc heard voices, same beam. (BTW, word of warning here, The English burned her. The puritans burned the witches in Salem). The band is spiritual not religious (personal belief is religion has as much to do with spirituality as intelligence has to do with common sense. Sometimes you find both together, but frequently they are miles apart).

Natural psychics will do well in RV if they can put a structure (not necessarily CRV) on their ability, are willing to invest the effort, and do not get bored while they are learning the basics (once again Joe no evidence to back up my theory).

I will try to tie this all together and summarize in a single sentence. RV, psi, and prayer all work because they are all magic.

<<PJ wrote: >>snip (e.g., I pray to Archangel Michael -- why not?), it does seem >>to be quite effective.

PJ; Do you know Saint Michael is the patron Saint of paratroopers? In the past, when I was neither religious nor spiritual, I said many fervent prayers to him at about 1250 feet. I bet Gene (that dumb mick from the wrong side of the tracks in some village called Belfast in Ulster) is also familiar with Saint Mike. Prayer must work, because Gene and I are still here. I guess you could use that as an argument against the effectiveness of prayer, because I am sure there are people out there who are praying Gene and I would just go away. BTW parachutes also work by magic.

One of my favorite quotes is: "Religion is for people who are afraid of hell. Spirituality is for people who have been through hell."

Thanks for letting me ramble on and giving you the world according to Liam.

Best Wishes to all and

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]


>PJ; Do you know Saint Michael is the patron Saint of paratroopers? >In the past, when I was neither religious nor spiritual, I said many >fervent prayers to him at about 1250 feet.

RVing is safer than parachuting. I used to start my prayers at around 9000ft. Clearly St Michael is a top bloke because after some hundreds of jumps I'm still here.

>parachutes also work by magic.

Yeah...well......I lost the magic a few times...had lots of broken bones over the years to prove it.

Main difference between parachuting and CRV is that parachuting takes only 1 day of training. Then you're an expert -:)

Jim


Liam wrote: >Natural psychics will do well in RV if they can put a structure (not >necessarily CRV) on their ability, are willing to invest the effort, >and do not get bored while they are learning the basics (Once again >Joe no evidence to back up my theory).

However, you are probably correct. I would only add that saying someone is naturally psychic is like saying "Hey look, that person over there has two legs!"

>I will try to tie this all together and summarize in a single >sentence. RV, psi, and prayer all work because they are all magic.

I would agree here as well. My Laotian friends used to write prayers on my body with ballpoint pens to make me bullet proof. It must have worked, as I'm still here too.

>"Religion is for people who are afraid of hell. Spirituality is for >people who have been through hell."

"Millions of spiritual creatures walk the earth unseen, both when we wake, and when we sleep. — [1.677] Milton-Paradise Lost.

:-) Joe

[Archive Note: Joseph McMoneagle, former U.S. Intell RV]


> I think psi is a very wide band beam. On that beam are many > channels. The ERV and CRV channels are on that beam. They are close > together but are definitely separate channels. There are other RV > channels there also.

Liam,

Thanks for the response! I agree with you completely -- "God's rain falls on the just and the unjust..." just like RV! It seems to be an inherent ability in man, like seeing or hearing in some ways. Some just have the ability more acutely than others. In some ways, it is like a sense, the famous "sixth sense"... but in another way, it is like a muscle, that gains strength and agility as it is used. ( By the way, my "right hand person" at work is from Belfast....what a fireball! And she's amazingly resourceful. I've begun to think the Irish truly are special!)

Lori


I, myself, was a product of regurgitated dogma. i was ordained in 1976 and peached radther successful for several years, include doing street work, etc. Although my church organization didn't understand my psychic nature, they would rather ignore it, they did allow my continuance.

At some point, I'm not sure when, I had to recognize that religion and the usual explanations that several of the churches used for "our kind", no longer could be reconciled, and I had to continue to search.

I think that once you explore the field a while, we begin to recognize just how much we don't know about the universe and current explanations and knowledge no longer apply. I have since learned that most of us find some sort of spirituality, not religion, because we have little choice but to recognize the interconnectedness of all things and recognize the vastness or the organized structure of things. Anything that well organized can not be done through randomness (perception I know). We may not see it the same way and may choose the use of cerimony or rituals (I choose not to), but the acknowledgment of a higher wisdom than even that of religion becomes self evident to our inner being.

Perhaps all roads lead to what we each would call God, or even perhaps to what we may consider to be a higher understanding through the use of RV or psychic perceptions. However, if we were to all RV the higher wisdom, we may fine (as I have) that it is independent and a consciousness.

More than all of the dibble about spirituality and God, what facinates me are the other common characteristics of those of us involved in this field as practitioners. Perhaps we could try to determine what are the many common characteristics that brings us to the table.

Rob


>One interesting side note: despite great anger at the Catholic church >in the past, for some reason I am very drawn to Catholic icons and >imagery. Architecturally, I love cloisters, churches, stained glass >windows, etc. Love incense, robes, etc. Which is truly weird >because I'm ASIAN oriented.

Rick, I can relate very strongly to your story. Like you I have no religious orientation at all -- one of the things my parents did right was to not dump all that on me. Well, OK, for one year my father went on a "we have to provide some religious background" kick and I had to go to Sunday school. My father was quite honest in saying that the main reason we were going to church was because it allowed him to do business networking! <g> All of that ended with the birth of my brother -- it was just too much hassle to attend church with a newborn. Perfect timing!

Despite that I'm very drawn to Gregorian Chants, although church icons do nothing for me. I do have an intense dislike for the Catholic church, which obviously doesn't originate in this lifetime.

Many others share this fascination and I can only assume that the icons and the trappings are reflective of older rituals or understandings which evoke the emotions we experience today. I don't think we have enough knowledge of our history to properly understand these connections, but the emotions are the link to them. In time, if we "follow the emotions" -- usually more fruitful that the shopworn "follow the money" <g> -- we will find those roots, I'm quite certain.

Through the years I've played around with past lives, sometimes doing "past life readings" for friends, having them do mine, or doing some form of guided meditation in order to get info on other lives. Very often I would tap into a particular life as a monk. He worked as a scribe, copying books, and was very unhappy about it. It took me awhile to realize that he wasn't unhappy about the process of scribing, he was upset about the content of the manuscripts themselves. They were lies. He knew it, but was powerless to do much about it.

One day I was sort of passively daydreaming about this monk, got up to walk into the kitchen and halfway across the livingroom a female voice very loudly and clearly said, "Monserrat." This place name sounded vaguely familiar, probably because of the Carribean island, and I dug out my encyclopedia to check further.

Lo and behold, Monserrat WAS a monastery in the Spanish Pyrenees, with obvious connection to Monsalvat on the French side. With your interests I'm sure you've read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and are familiar with the story of Monsalvat. Both places were legendary "houses of the Grail." Monserrat was in full operation in the 900's AD, if memory serves.

I have a very strong sense that this monk made efforts to preserve "the truth" and spent late night hours scribing other documents. If anyone unearths those documents, I'm fairly sure I could decode them. In fact, I have seen one document that currently resides at Yale (can't recall the name of it offhand, although it's pretty well-known and you are probably familiar with it). Supposedly CIA had this thing for 5 years and were never able to decode it. I don't think it's a cypher and all the computers in the world would not help. In any case, I felt no personal connection to this particular document and can't do much with it myself.

I have made some efforts to communicate with this monk (it might help to remember that these lives are simultaneous and we are able to influence each other "across time"). I wasn't quite sure what to say to him, but I felt so badly about his predicament that I felt I ought to do something. I think I told him something like, "I've got the ball and I'm going to run with it," althought that's a huge overstatement. I really should dialogue with him sometime; if I can establish a good connection, perhaps he can provide some interesting puzzle pieces.

Rick, I think it's possible that experiences like yours can happen when students are first investigating remote viewing. We are opening doorways, after all, and we can't always control the nature of the flow that comes through. But more than that, because of the historical/religious nature of your experience, I feel that there are more direct connections - more specific information that is trying to come through. You are certainly not alone in this.

Skye


<< One interesting side note: despite great anger at the Catholic church in the past, for some reason I am very drawn to Catholic icons and imagery. Architecturally, I love cloisters, churches, stained glass windows, etc. Love incense, robes, etc. Which is truly weird because I'm ASIAN oriented. >>

Neither Liam nor myself are Priest and neither of us have "left" the church. We both share the same historic joke about people who "leave" the Church. Martin Luther, founder of the other folks... was himself a novitiate Priest, lacking only his final vows... Upon his deathbed, he "returned" to the Catholic church noting his folly in opening the door for everyone to "interpret" religious doctrine... "I have given every milkmaid the right and authority..." ...Renouncing the Church and excepting excommunication is a step even the most verbal "agnostic" rarely takes... therefore Liam and I have both noted those who claim to have "left" the Church have really only started a bad attendance record... OK... Father Gene will now step down from the pulpit and try to answer more of your questions.... "In Search of the Disappearing Pendulum"...old book on psychic phenomena written in scientific terms by a physicist... don't ask me his name, I no longer haver the book having lent it to someone... Anyhow, this scientist noted the Earth resonates at a specific frequency caused by the fact the globe revolves faster than the blanket of atmosphere surrounding it... at the friction point, electromagnetic emanations are being transmitted into space towards infinity... they cannot be stopped or diverted because they are electromagnetic... Same scientist noted the rest of the universe is resonating at about the same frequency... It notes the Earth really would not have much chance of resonating at anything except that frequency since the universe would "influence" the Earth to resonate to the same tune as the universe. Pendulums in a room full of pendulum clocks would also eventually begin swinging to the tune of the largest most influential pendulum... Anyhow, this same frequency, ironically enough, turns out to be very similar to the frequency of a Gregorian chant, a Buddhist Matra, and several other droning, monotoning rhythms which seem to make people feel good. Why not!!! If you are in a place which is resonating against the universal frequency, there would be disconsonence.. discord... A place playing along on the same sheet of music would be far more non-combative... Don't know if that is why you still hold onto some of the old Church ways but maybe a bit of the universal "niceness" we find in Church still holds a special memory in your heart and maybe something greater is telling you it might be time to do something about your attendance record... Regards... Gene...

[Archive Note: Gene Kincaid, former U.S. Intell RV]


>"In Search of the Disappearing Pendulum"..old book on psychic >>phenomena written in scientific terms but a physicist...don't ask me >his name,

I believe it's Foucault. The book you're referring to might be "Foucault's Pendulum" by Umberto Eco. (Good book, by the same guy that wrote "The Name of the Rose," the movie of which starred Sean Connery.) The structure of the novel is based on the Cabalah.

>Anyhow, this scientist noted the Earth resonates at a specific >>frequency caused by the fact the globe revolves faster than the >blanket of atmosphere surrounding it...at the friction point, <snip> ironically enough, turns out >to be very similar to the frequency of a Gregorian chant, a >Buddhist Matra, and several other droning, monotoning rhythms which >seem to make people feel good. Why not!!! If you are in a place >which is resonating against the universal frequency, there would be >disconsonence..discord...

I remember hearing an equation for Earth's frequency (about 7.5, I believe). Had to do with distance from the Sun and the circumference or something. I recall thinking that these same factors were built into the Great Pyramid, which has sometimes been thought of as a resonating chamber.

(Sure would like to know if this has anything to do with psi and LST...)

Foucault might be right that there is a universal frequency, but I tend to think of that as a universal tuning fork, A440 or something. But there are still many other notes, and other octaves, which may be expressed. Harmony is nice, after all.

I recently found an article in Science News or some such. Scientists said that Earth has a solid iron core which is spinning at a different rate of speed from the upper layers. This could certainly cause some frequency dissonance...;-)

BTW, lest anyone think that because I don't like organized religion that I'm some kind of anti-spiritual person, this is not the case. I just don't like the idea of worship in general and prefer to express those same general ideas/feelings in different ways.

Skye


> I recently found an article in Science News or some such. > Scientists said that Earth has a solid iron core which is spinning > at a different rate of speed from the upper layers. This could > certainly cause some frequency dissonance...;-)

Also check out the work of Gregg Braden "Return to Zero Point" In the books and videos, as well as his recient AB interview, Gregg states that the earths resonant frequency is changing and is already over 10. He also states that the pyrmids as well as other great spiritual sites have chambers of such frequency so that initiates could experience living in the frequency we have in our time... because the difference in frequency has a marked effect on not only the physical body but the emotions, mind and spiritual abilities. I am not a physicist but his arguments are profound..it is worth checking out.

Aloha Yaana

---------
For those who missed the beginning of this thread, it DID relate to RV, really..... -- PJ


>Either there was somethin' funny in thet thar grapefruit or . . . I >mean, when it comes to reincarnation, I'm an agnostic. Genetic >memory? Could I have been border-line RV'g some other extension of >one of my "other" selves? Any comments from religious or otherwise >people out there? One interesting side note: despite great anger at >the Catholic church in the past, for some reason I am very drawn to >Catholic icons and imagery. Architecturally, I love cloisters, >churches, stained glass windows, etc. Love incense, robes, etc. >Which is truly weird because I'm ASIAN oriented. snip

PJ Said >the whole theology and setting is "larger than life." (I myself am >intensely drawn to Catholic music, icons, etc., and I wasn't raised >Catholic and don't agree with the religion. I'm from an Irish >background, so maybe it's genetic, who knows.)

Hi Rick, PJ, and all;

WOW!!!.......All I can give you on this is my perception, based on my world view. (Probably other-world view is a better term.) I have noted, that many people who are involved in the psychic realm for a considerable length of time tend to drift away from organized religion, or if they maintain an organized religion, they look for spiritual fullfillment elsewhere. Mel Riley's attraction to Native American spirituality (the red road). Gene and my own attraction to Celtic/Irish history and, at least for me, spirituality. My wife Sandy was never interested in her Native American roots, until she started doing things psychic. She describes her spiritual evolution as follows: She use to get spirituality sitting in a skirt and sweater on a pew in a warm church listening to the priest talk. She now gets spirituality sitting buck naked on the cold ground while the steam from the sweat lodge burns her tits and ants bite her ass. There are others who have followed basically the same road, but I do not feel comfortable talking about their beliefs without their permisson.

The history of organized religion, including catholicism, is not attractive. Chistianity gave us the Inquisition, 30 years war, persecution, intolerance, and on and on. What the Jews did to POWs in the old testement in the name of God, would warrant a War Crimes Tribunal today. Islam is used to justify blowing up buses filled with women and children and putting out contracts on writers who disagree with you. In the new world the Aztecs and Toltecs fought the war of the flowers to get POWs so their priests could sacrife them and engage in ritual cannabilism. If there is anyone I left out and did not offend, consider it an oversight on my part. Organized religions are human institutions, and are political and bureaucratic. I believe they are guided by a higher power, but human free will insures they are less than perfect.

IMHO the one thing organized religions have in common is the attempt to put a monopoly on magic. Magic is a general term and includes psychic power, medicine, interpretation of the higher Power or Powers will or wills, powerful prayer, and the formula for salvation.

In North America, north of the Rio Grande, many, but certainly not all, of the tribes allowed for individual access to magic. Magic was necessary to surive in the world. The medicine person or holy person was there to assist you, but claimed no monopoly on the magic. In Celtic and pre-Celtic Erin, magic was also allocated to the individual and was a useful tool in dealing with a world populated by not always friendly spirits, goulies, and ghosties.

As we become more involved in RV and the psychic world (or worlds) are we drawn by some ethnic or racial memory back to a theology that takes into account our new reality? Hell, I don't know. It is also possible that our sub-conscious now accepts that we are ready to embrace what we had previously considered to be a primitive belief system. Rick, it may be possible, just opening yourself up to RV triggered your SC into accepting other possibilities. Once those possibilities were accepted they became realities.

Skye's comment that all time is happening at once is almost a Celtic concept. If you have ever seen any Celtic designs you will notice the loops, swirls, and the almost unfollowable designs going back and through each other. Time was not linear. It was like those designs. They also believed in reincarnation. That is why the Celtic year begins on 1 Nov. The start of winter. The season that symbolizes death. Death comes before life (summer) and life returns to death to be reborn again. BTW, the catholic church, while it does not teach the above two concepts, it does not say they are wrong. So maybe you were viewing a past, future, or present life. Or maybe your wife is putting LSD in the grapefruit. In the 60s we would have called what happened to you a "bad trip" or a flashback man.

I think the important thing is that you realize you had a new experience and you know you aren't crazy. You have, IMO, the perfect attitude, which is to enjoy the experience. I am not sure it is necessary to put a label on it or to explain why it happened. If you must know what it was, then I will tell you. It was magic. Utilize don't analyze. Life is full of experiences, some psychic some not. We can either spend our time trying to figure out just what the hell is going on and why, or we can relax and enjoy the journey.

BTW: My religion is catholic. My spirituality is Celtic (irish), a large batch of Native American and a little catholic. My theology is all of the above mixed in with some of the set of morals PJ posted earlier.

Religions are like spouses. If you look for a perfect one you will go from divorce to divorce. Look for one that suits you and you think you can live with the rest of your life. The prettiest girl at the dance may not know beans about making bread pudding. And remember, never marry a girl who carries a meat cleaver in her purse or who dated the Dallas Cowboys.

Once last thing and I will then close and bandage my poor bleeding fingers. I too enjoy the trappings and rituals of the church. I think all churches and most institutions use these: First communion suits or dresses. Military units passing in review. Wear a medicine bag around your neck. Stay in structure. Make the sign of the cross when passing a graveyard. Maybe the catholic church just does rituals and incense better.

PJ, you fine irish lass. I took the liberty of giving the good father your address and he will be calling on you later tonight.

Thanks everyone for letting me ramble

Best wishes

Slainte

May the force be with you

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]


END ARCHIVE 53
November 1997

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