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Public Viewer Email Group
Archive 054
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This is an archive file of the public Viewer [VWR] email list. This list is sponsored by the private Viewer Forum, hosted by Paradigm Systems and Design, and owned and operated by PJ Gaenir. It is dedicated to discussion of the practical aspects, theories and experience of formal psychic methodologies such as Controlled Remote Viewing, and independent efforts by the public interested in working under the formal RV protocol (the set of rules which define "remote viewing" as the term was coined in a science lab). You can find details, rules, and a form for joining the email group here. The list is moderated during operation and archiving. I remove last names and detail locations of contributors (within the archives) for privacy, and signatures for space conservation. I have added notes marking the posts from former U.S. intelligence remote viewers. Archiving of posts is done manually and may not include all posts.

This is the fifty-fourth archive.


November 1997
BEGIN ARCHIVE 54

<< believe it's Foucault....

Nope it was not Foucaults book...the title was in fact something like "Searching for the lost pendulum." Keep looking... Iron core revolving at different freq...yes, no doubt...but trust me...in radio harmonics, when you have a big frequency modulator (big pendulum) all the lesser freq modulators will be influenced by the big one and will "force" synchronization...The universe is just about the biggest modulator that I can think of and when it resonates everything better follow or be considered out of synch...no two ways about it...if you think other freqs are out there trying to sing alto or tenor..you're right but not for long...they will also join the contralto..no choice in the matter.... Regards...Gene..

[Archive Note: Gene Kincaid, former U.S. Intell RV]


Re Mind melds.

In military training, did you have to deep probe each other? How do you know it when its being done to you?

MaryD.


<< In military training, did you have to deep probe each other? How do you know it when its being done to you? >>

You make it sound so sensual... No we did not deep anything to each other...we just weren't that kind of unit...You might ask the Navy...???!!! Seriously... Mary... forget the Vulcan Mind "Meld" stuff... too many other things in RV to do which make sense and are possible... Regards... Gene

[Archive Note: Gene Kincaid, former U.S. Intell RV]


> A "Deep Mind Probe" is used to pick up thoughts and perceptions of > the subject being viewed, as well as gaining answers to questions > one might have.

After reading some of the discussions going on concerning "mind probes", we felt that we had to jump in and add our two cents. There has been a bit of good natured humor concerning this issue, but there is a serious side to this as well. Attempting to get into the mind of another person while RVing is a practice that must not be taken lightly. There can be severe consequences for a viewer who is not adequately trained to separate him/herself from the subject being RVd. For instance, a viewer who attempts to RV a murderer could quite possibly integrate some of the subject's negative qualities. This is why we caution all of our students that they should only enter this part of stage 4 with a trained monitor present, so as to protect against the viewer getting "sucked in" to the subject's mentality. "Deep Mind Probes", or whatever else you want to call them, sound very sexy and exciting, but can be extremely damaging if not handled correctly. Pitfalls such as these are one of the reasons many of the most experienced viewers object to how CRV is being taught in certain circles, including learning by tapes. Remote Viewing is not a game, and should be treated with the same respect that one would use when working with fire or electricity.

O.K. we'll get off our soapbox now ;)

Brent and Lisa


> Remote Viewing is not a game, and should be treated with the same > respect that one would use when working with fire or electricity.

Brent and Lisa,

Thank you for the caution. I have found that those who do this sort of thing rather well, tend to have difficulty separating themselves from the subject to some degree. In our little corner of the Psy world, we do teach a technique that accomplishes this type of outcome. However, only in more advanced levels of work. It is always done with a "Monitor" and care is taken to ensure a good disconnect afterwards and a decent clean up is accomplished by the "Monitor", before the Reader leaves. Even with these precautions, it is common for the Reader to not get completely separated, mentally, from the subject for a time.

You are absolutely right and I appreciate the reminder of caution.

Rob A

---------
Moderator's Note: Right. Even spontaneous/accidental merges or extra large doses of 'empathy' can have a powerful affect on a person. Let alone deliberately intending such a merge. It is my opinion that the occasional person who gets a little whacked out in this field is probably that way through too much merging with other identities without enough grounding in their own. -- PJ

P.S. This especially goes for... archetypes, entities, and other 'anomalous identities.' (Note to the cosmic Viewer: Avoid merging with the cat-eyed lizard dudes.)


In an earlier post I wrote:
>>Shame on you Paul, and you too PJ. I am surprised neither of you >>recognized the deep mind probe. That is probably because the >>title was shortened by the author. If you heard the whole title >>I am sure you would recognize this technique. The whole and >>scientifically correct title is the "Vulcan Deep Mind Probe."

I was going to write you off line but I decided that public humiliation would be more appropriate. I apologize for being flippant. I am sorry if I came accross as sarcastic. I try not to take life seriously and sometimes my irreverence can be trying (As least that is what my wife Sandy tells me.)

But >Ouch! Such Sarcasm! As a retired banker, the "colder than a money >lender's heart in January" comment really scraped a nerve.

Actually Mark, I once was a pretty nice guy with a lot of friends, but then I met Gene and turned into a real SOB and now I am pretty much by myself. The few friends I still have, I have to pay. As for my statement about colder than a money lenders heart, I was not talking about bankers, but about my financial advisor, Guido. He has an office at the end of the bar in O Rielly's tavern, and uses the word yooose a lot. He does not know about compound interest, but he is an expert in compound fractures.

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]


>This sounds like me after ANY reasonably good session. When my handwriting >falls apart (and it's pretty bad to begin with), I know I've arrived.<g> This >in fact describes the "zonked" experience that Gene Kincaid has talked about.

Maybe I failed to express the sensations in more Generally Accepted Remote Viewing Terms. Correction: The sensations could be more appropriately defined as "Triple Zonked". Personally, I felt it may have been due to the "alien" nature of the target, but I didn't want to front load the question.

>Please forgive me--this is not intended as a hostile question--but what the >heck is a "deep mind probe," anyway!?

A "Deep Mind Probe" is used to pick up thoughts and perceptions of the subject being viewed, as well as gaining answers to questions one might have. (Ref. Procedures for the technique can be found in the Online SRV Manual, The Farsight Institute www.farsight.org)

>Shame on you Paul, and you too PJ. I am surprised neither of you recognized the >deep mind probe. That is probably because the title was shortened by the >author. If you heard the whole title I am sure you would recognize this >technique. The whole and scientifically correct title is the "Vulcan Deep Mind >Probe."

If one is considering integrating "Deep Mind Probe" in a session, adding the term "Vulcan" may or may not dampen its effectiveness. I am unaware of it being attempted. However, I am aware that excellent results can be achieved without it.

I appreciated the suggestions for after session "zonkedness". This was my first inquiry at this site, and as I had hoped, I received interesting input from experienced and professional remote viewers. But Ouch! Such Sarcasm! As a retired banker, the "colder than a money lender's heart in January" comment really scraped a nerve.

With best regards,

Mark Professional SRViewer

P. S. The term "IMO" was used in a response. Would you please define this?

------------
Moderator's Note:

1- Yes Mark, RVing aliens might make you a little weird. I think we have some quite colorful examples of this in the "RV" field. If it generally brings on "triple-zonked-ness" maybe you better limit them to one a day or something, or be certain to follow them up with the RV of something incredibly mundane and detailed that you have to spell out the feedback/accuracy in excruciating detail for. :-)

2 - "Deep Mind Probe" is a delightful term that sounds like something out of a 1960's movie -- hence the Star Trek joke by Liam -- it's a standard part of CRV, but is usually just considered one of many parts of Stage 4, or sometimes I've heard it referred to as 'personality profiling' or other such terms. (CRV is what I'm familiar with -- which is so practical it verges on being quite dull compared to the cosmic efforts of other derivative approaches.) Similar I guess to the "Professional Remote Viewer" term students are granted after an SRV or TRV course. Even remote viewers (former intell folks for instance) I know who do quite a lot of this including in professional capacities don't refer to themselves as such. In that world, you're just "a Viewer," you gain your stripes by doing.... no gold stars self-stuck to the forehead. ;-) Anyway, Liam was just teasing....

3 - Bankers and moneylenders... there's a difference there, kind of like the difference between "investment counselor" and "bookie." ;-)

4 - Feel welcome to ask any questions you may have. A few of us (like me) are frightfully opinionated at times, but if you're willing to be more patient and mature than I am (not difficult to imagine), you can get a lot out of this email opportunity.

PJ


Mark wrote: <<If one is considering integrating "Deep Mind Probe" in a session, adding the term "Vulcan" may or may not dampen its effectiveness. I am unaware of it being attempted. However, I am aware that excellent results can be achieved without it.>>

HELLO! HELLO! IT WAS A JOKE!! I think.

Nancy


Yes. Palyne... I listen carefully to everything that Liam says about me...Yes, I agree on two main issues... RV and Parachutes... they are both operated and function due to magic... nothing else explains it so it has to be magic.... As for praying to St. Michael...Well as a young paratrooper with not much experience I may have done a quick lap around the beads on the way down... but unlike Liam, I became a proficient paratrooper and no longer needed spiritual assistance... my expert capabilities carried me through (and magic of course)... As to the previous issues of Vulcan Mind Melds (or what the SRV community has chosen to call "deep mind probes"), obviously we ignorant Catholic lads from the wrong side of the tracks in the "village" of Belfast would not be much of a target.... at least they would not have to dig very deep ... Liam and I did, in fact do a bit of personality scanning in the old unit... He was one of the best RV'rs in the business and I was THE best monitor.... even with all that talent, the best we got were some emotional sensing... names, date of birth, etc out of the question. Concern over family members, job security, maybe an little indication of an illness could be discerned but you know, if we had the opportunity to sit down with the target for about twenty minutes we would probably have gotten the same data... no real "deep stuff" (sorry SRV / TRV been there - done that and it don't work like you say it does... and we had the best trying it for long periods of time...). Liam was, in fact, fairly good at discerning illness (organ damage, etc) in a target and got to the point where he could do a fairly good "quick scan" but where I got went to school, what the combination to the safe was (oh BTW, the Russian military didn't use combination safes...but that's another subject), or the title and words on "Hoch Geheim" (Top Secret) East German document just didn't happen... Again SRV /TRV folks... you should be ashamed for indicating you can "read" a document... The only person who has a record or doing that with any measure of success was Joe McMoneagle and nobody knew how he did it and nobody could copy it... and, BTW even he was about 50% accurate on his best days of trying to actually read documents... We tried and tried... numbers and words were very important to us... but were very very very hard to discern.... Someone noted the dangers in accessing evil people in these so called "deep mind probes"... I know you won't believe this folks, but you aren't really in the second floor of the Kremlin when you are RV'ing... you are safely in your beds or living rooms.... and you are not "connected" in anyway but magic... and magic will prevent you from becoming contaminated by the big bad meanies you try to mind meld... We accessed some of the meanest and nastiest folks in the world and it did not affect any or our people adversely especially the monitors and if you don't believe that I will come over to your house and kill the thing you love the most in front of yoose... Warmest Regards... Gene

[Archive Note: Gene Kincaid, former U.S. Intell RV]

-------
Moderator's Note: As you guys can see, half the education here is just exposure to the interesting personalities these intell Viewers have... believe it or not, this was the NICE post from Gene, I bounced his last one for being overly politically incorrect... I'm going to let this one slide, have patience, guess it's one of the advantages to having real credentials in this field, I let these guys get away with more snappy opinions than others... as you see, Gene's ellipses are contagious.... PJ


> of bi-location is there an auditory vibration sound that can be > either heard or perceived.

A few months ago, during a meditation, I heard a crackling noise then a loud snap (like a capacitor being shorted or discharged) and a feeling of a blast of air against my body. I found myself in a room with a yellow wall and a bench against it. On the bench I saw a glass enclosure with fourvortexes spinning inside. I had two "different" sets of thoughts each telling me what the vortexes were. I know that this was not remote viewing, but if I would have been remote viewing at the time I would have been "convinced" that it was a bi-location....Ken


>> 2. Is it possible to read a file/book/letter using CRV?

Hi Pete, Lyn, world.

Liam here. I can only answer from my own experience. Ingo supposedly picked up some code words while doing a military site. I believe this was because those words had a meaning separate from the words themselves (confused?)

Say for example, you were doing the old military RV project. (assume for the sake of the example, that there really was a military RV project). You have worked through the earlier steps and are now in stage 4. (I may lose a lot of people here, but I can't see any way around that.)

Under tangibles you get building.

Under stage 2 you get peeling green delapidated

Under intangables you get military use information gathering stargate Intelligent, wonderful people AOL Break

You did not read the word stargate. It came through because the word was an intangable part of the site.

If you desire this type of information, IMO, ERV is the technique offering the greatest chance of success. You will not be able to read the letters but you can ask somebody there what the document/file is about. You will not get it word for word, but you MAY GET the general gist (what does gist mean anyway).

Using ERV I have been able to get numbers. I did not read them, I just knew certain numbers were important. I must confess I could not tell in what order the numbers went. My wife has, on occasion, been able to read alphabet letters at a site. Like Lyn's example, these times the writing was not in english, but a foreign language. One site she did in Denmark, she picked up several letters, including the wierd dannish o with the line through it. Could she translate it? No.

Bottom line is, this is like the search problem. Something I would rather not use RV for if there was anyway else to get the information. IMHO, one of the most important things to learn about RV is its limitations.

I hope this helped.

Best wishes

May the Force be with you,

Liam

[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]


>The only acceptable replicable form of mild remote influencing >available is Subjective Communication which you can read about in >any Silva Mind book. And this works generally in a win/win >situation. That is...the outcome must be acceptable to both parties.

Maybe that's the key, Jim. In your travels through all of this remote influence stuff, I'm sure you must have checked further than just the Silva gang re what's usually called "distance healing". A prime illustration of "remote influence" about which there's a substantial documented literature.

I've seen a very feisty 80-year old lady from a small town in Missouri do an even wilder variant. "Spirit releasement" at a distance, during which the subject of this "ministration" was unaware that s/he was being "worked on" (What you'd call "targeted, I guess), and the feisty lady knew nothing about the subject except first name and current street address. (I.e., the subject might not have even been home at the time of the session.) In the spirit releasement model, various afflictions, both physical and emotional, can be caused by the "presence" in one's "self" of a "spirit" -- maybe someone as benign as one who died and hasn't yet "looked up" toward "the light" and seen that his/her new "home" is in this direction, and so is "stuck" "occupying" in part this other person's (maybe a relative) living "self". Feisty lady gets in touch with this spirit, asks questions, re-directs, etc., and the "spirit" is most often "released". This kind of intervention, though it surely has some fascinating embedded ethical issues, is very easy to check on, and she has a hell of a successful track record of people having sudden "inexplicable" healings, big reliefs, and such.

If that ain't "remote influencing" -- *with* feedback, big-time! -- I dunno what is. I couldn't resist bringing it up here in light of all the protestations in the list that no such thing as remote influencing has ever been demonstrated.

(And do let's not forget Voodoo. Izzat really *all* just kwinkydink and negative placebo effect where the victim took a dive because s/he knew the "spell" had been cast on him/her? What about the cases where the victim did *not* know?)

-=d=-


<<Remote Viewing is not a game, and should be treated with the same respect that one would use when working with fire or electricity. >>

I heartily concur, having done some deep work myself. Those who have been "deep" in strange waters will concur too. Lyn told me one time that the viewer can have all kinds of bizarre symptoms including a change of eye color and change of psyche for a time. Don't laugh, it is documented very well in the medical literature that multiple personalities sometimes have variations in eye color and even blood chemistry, like, one personality will have diabetes and another won't. My, my, my, the power of the mind.

Methinks that fire AND electricity together are not as potentially dangerous as RV. Here again is my opportunity to say that our first obligation in studying this vital work is to develop our own internal strength, and I quote again the words of that (so far) immortal anonymous American Patriot (who is a subscriber to this list) (Hi) :

In order to improve psychically, you have to grow philosophically. Then you take your morality very seriously, and to hell with what the government wants.

TAKE HEED, YE DABBLERS.

Nancy

Oh, I forgot -- Halloween is over on this timeline.


Hello all! I am SO glad Sarah mentioned sleeping patterns! Although I have always had a tendency to dream vivid dreams, since getting involved with CRV, the frequency of them has increased 500-fold, and they are much more vivid -- the colors, the detail, etc. I notice the individual leaves on the trees, rustling in the wind, for example. The "psi" level in general has picked up a lot, in areas we would not have expected. We have both had some spontaneous OBE's as well. I believe all this is related to just opening up. Any comments?

Lori


PJ,

My understanding of your approach to ethics and psi may not have been what you intended. Of course, we may just have to agree to disagree on this one. In any case, this is another side to the discussion.

PJ wrote: > I didn't begin with this belief system, I evolved to it. ...

It always worries me abit when I hear somebody talking about how they have evolved to a higher level than presumably the rest of us. Young gods (even if it is only in the mind of the evolvee) aren't known for compassion or even a full understanding of the results of their actions.

Too often the "external rules don't apply to me" advocate only talks about the accepting their personal consequences. What about when there only consequences for the victim(s)? Just because you have the power to get away with doing something without personal consequences doesn't mean that there aren't consequences. In the case of traditional psi work or remote viewing, this is a very real situation.

That is why I won't work with anybody who relies on only their own wisdom for their morality. Such wisdom is too limited because it is cut off from the greater cycles of being human and a soul connected to other humans and souls. A discussion framed in terms of "power" or "rights" to same doesn't include responsibilities and limitations based on the whole rather than the individual. As psi workers, we need to seek a balance between the whole (or external) and the self.

There is an story about a chinese sage. First, he saw the trees and the mountains and all he saw were trees and mountains. Then, he knew them for illusion and all he knew was himself. Finally, he again saw the trees and mountains. The same process applies to morality.

Rusty


Hi Rusty,

I think the issue here is probably far more one of semantics and perspective than of any operational difference between us.

>>It always worries me abit when I hear somebody talking about how they have evolved to a higher level than presumably the rest of us.

You interpreted my comment to mean that. I did not say that. I said I evolved to my current understanding. It may still be miles below the understanding of even the dimmest. It merely means that it was the end process of some growth on my part. Doesn't mean it's perfect, doesn't mean it's superior to yours, doesn't mean it's the end of the line. It just means, it isn't accident or thoughtless state; development brought me here.

>>Too often the "external rules don't apply to me" advocate only talks about the accepting their personal consequences. What about when there only consequences for the victim(s)? Just because you have the power to get away with doing something without personal consequences doesn't mean that there aren't consequences. In the case of traditional psi work or remote viewing, this is a very real situation.

You're right, it is. Though again, there is your assumption that if I say a person is fully responsible for their behavior, that I somehow would exclude responsibility for the results of their behavior on others as well. (?!) I would not. That is part and parcel of responsibility. I don't even kill spiders for goddsake, because I sense internally that it is not Just. Their death would affect me personally regardless of what seems like a surface unbothered. The same certainly goes for all other creatures, including my own species.

>>That is why I won't work with anybody who relies on only their own wisdom for their morality.

Btw, just as an aside: I never mentioned wisdom. I mentioned internal intuition and morality and intent. Those are not mentally based. In my case, they're a result of my interaction with what I call God. Few people, regardless of what book of rules they're following, can do more.

I'm reminded of a biblical verse from the book of Proverbs that I took to heart when I was about 15. It said something like, don't swear on God you'll do something; don't swear on the earth you'll do something; just give your word and that should be enough. For me, that's enough. It's a Saladin-honor thing in the long run.

We're talking in words here, but in the end, intent and actions are what matter; operationally we may be completely in agreement.

>>A discussion framed in terms of "power" or "rights" to same doesn't include responsibilities and limitations based on the whole rather than the individual. As psi workers, we need to seek a balance between the whole (or external) and the self.

I agree. Though you were the one who brought up power. ;-) Since that was your comment, that's what I responded to. You're right, it does not address the fuller spectrum of the issues.

Having talked some of this discussion over with a friend, my final conclusion is that much of this is semantics; is presenting a different perspective on what amounts to basically the same set of ethics in practice.

Some recent events run past me, occurring in other little corners of the RV world, have made me rather hypersensitive to the subject of ethics and using paranoia to make excuses for having none. My goal is to avoid judging people's motivations, for the sake of getting their own motivations clear to them and others. When they really see what's going on inside them, they may understand -- and change. (Or not. Not my business.)

As long as some people are horrified at true honesty even when the information is less than perfect or noble, many people will never have the courage to face themselves; they cannot admit how they feel and what their motives are even to themselves. Nobody I know is ascended; everybody I know including me has a fully operational dark side they usually pretend doesn't exist; my philosophy says that acceptance of all aspects of yourself gives you more freedom to make a choice, and preferably a good one.

My philosophy may be wrong, or shallow, and it is often misinterpreted even by others who hold it as being some kind of license for being a lousy human being. A fuller understanding of "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" makes it just the opposite... "thou" includes one's God (so to speak), and one is absolutely responsible for incorporating that Will into their actions by nature of that comment. One is also responsible for doing what they feel is right and not hesitating or being distracted by other issues. All in all it is a very positive philosophy which some people just react badly to for one reason or another. One reason is that semantically it is difficult to discuss within the context of our cultural constructs without a lot of assumptions being grafted onto it by others.

Peace,

PJ


Rusty replied: >How rigorous are your recording and feedback procedures? The mind >will obligingly provide a world to live in as neurotics and >psychotics can attest. I'm not saying you are either just that the >mind is capable of true multi-media virtual reality. Just because >somebody has a mental experience doesn't mean that a psychic one took >place. The only way you can know that it was psychic is to have >recorded it prior to receiving the feedback.

I would strongly suggest that everyone who does any "psychic" work of any kind read and re-read Rusty's question and comment. It is at the very heart of the process of de-BSing our work and our beliefs and sorting out what is real and what is wishful thinking. Alan, if your work won't stand up to the cold requirements Rusty is talking about, then all your work declines into the sub-BS level. If you have been keeping records and maintaining valid, clean work- and feedback procedures, then we would all be interested in hearing about it.

Lyn

[Archive Note: Lyn Buchanan, former U.S. Intell RV]


> Rusty replied: > >How rigorous are your recording and feedback procedures? The mind > >will obligingly provide a world to live in as neurotics and > >psychotics can attest. I'm not saying you are either just that the > >mind is capable of true multi-media virtual reality.

That is correct, therefore it behooves us to be able to distinguish the hallucinatory and the actual.

> >Just because > >somebody has a mental experience doesn't mean that a psychic one > >took > >place. The only way you can know that it was psychic is to have > >recorded it prior to receiving the feedback.

Leonard replied: > I would strongly suggest that everyone who does any "psychic" work > of any kind read and re-read Rusty's question and comment. It is at > the very heart of the process of de-BSing our work and our beliefs > and sorting out what is real and what is wishful thinking.

Do you have specific methods or indicators to distinguish this?

> Alan, if your > work won't stand up to the cold requirements Rusty is talking about, > then all your work declines into the sub-BS level. If you have been > keeping records and maintaining valid, clean work- and feedback > procedures, then we would all be interested in hearing about it.

Not only do we record our sessions, but we have very specific phenomena that must present itself in session. Then further verification in life.

The standards that we adhere to are far more precise and exact than any I have observed so far discussed here or posted on the RV web-pages.

The key to what we do is the Perfect Site Integration.

Therefore I would appreciate your definition of this phenomena. For if we have different definitions then we will go very far afield from each other.

The definition I use is:

Perfect Site Integration is a form of 3 dimensional holography that includes all perceptions.

This includes the exact and precise who, what, where, when, how, moods, emotions, sights sounds, smells, colors, visio, tactile, audio, etc.

The ability to observe 3D exactly what is.

There are of course gradients to this, as one cannot always obtain all perceptions.

If we are to gain from this, I believe we should define our terms as we proceed.

As Mr. Socrates once said:

"The beginning of wisdom, is the definition of terms."

Alan


<<<<Rusty replied: How rigorous are your recording and feedback procedures?
>>>>Alan: That is correct, therefore it behooves us to be able to distinguish >the hallucinatory and the actual.

In the context of remote viewing, hallucinations aren't the issue, correct data is. Most RVers are probably not suffering psychotic breaks (I said *most*! <g>) Without feedback (and "feedback" is the highly operative term from Rusty's question), meaning confirmation by someone who was at the target at the time in question and preferably can provide photographs or other hard evidence, there is no validation and you have no idea how good/bad the session was.

<<<<Leonard replied: I would strongly suggest that everyone who does any "psychic" work >> of any kind read and re-read Rusty's question and comment. It is >>at the very heart of the process of de-BSing our work and our >>beliefs and sorting out what is real and what is wishful thinking.
>>>>>Do you have specific methods or indicators to distinguish this?

See "feedback" above. Can you know during the session, before the feedback? Not with absolute certainty.

> > >Not only do we record our sessions, but we have very specific >phenomena that must present itself in session. Then further verification in life.

Looking for positive signals during a session isn't enough. "Verification in life" might be, depending on what you mean by that.

>The standards that we adhere to are far more precise and exact than >any I have observed so far discussed here or posted on the RV >web-pages.

Again, you can have all the "standards" you want. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.

> >The key to what we do is the Perfect Site Integration. > >The definition I use is:

I don't think you and Lyn are using the same definition for "perfect Site Integration." What he means is full-on bilocation. It's not "like you are there," or you have most of the kinds of sensories and perceptions you would have *if* you were there. You ARE there.

I've had this experience twice and never in the context of a remote viewing session. I don't know of anyone that can produce this effect on demand. If you can, I'd like to hear about it.

The problem with this is that while you are at the target you are not able to communicate back in your original location, therefore the best you can do is report your *memory* of what you experienced while at the site. Not bad, but not necessarily perfect either.

>As Mr. Socrates once said: > >"The beginning of wisdom, is the definition of terms."

Right. And the problem with the general public getting their hands on RV manuals, which might have some definitions, but not certainly the detailed discussions of the terms that take place during actual training, is that there is not common understanding as to the terms and concepts being used.

Skye


END ARCHIVE 54
November 1997

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