Viewer Email Group
This is an archive file of the public Viewer [VWR] email list. This list is sponsored by the private Viewer Forum, hosted by Paradigm Systems and Design, and owned and operated by PJ Gaenir. It is dedicated to discussion of the practical aspects, theories and experience of formal psychic methodologies such as Controlled Remote Viewing, and independent efforts by the public interested in working under the formal RV protocol (the set of rules which define "remote viewing" as the term was coined in a science lab). You can find details, rules, and a form for joining the email group here. The list is moderated during operation and archiving. I remove last names and detail locations of contributors (within the archives) for privacy, and signatures for space conservation. I have added notes marking the posts from former U.S. intelligence remote viewers. Archiving of posts is done manually and may not include all posts.
This is the sixty-first archive.
BEGIN ARCHIVE 61
How do we know if the data we are obtaining from our RV session is true or false data. How can we tell if our imagination is running wild and just filling in us with inaccurate data in order to have something to write? To be able to discern when we are listening to that small soft voice within: that subliminal whisper from our subconscious that is the key to knowing that when the data being received really from the signal line. Another key is to limit our writing of remote viewing data to only the real visuals in our mind's eye, and not report extraneous data that we know are from our thinking mind. To record only data obtained from our intuitive instant-knowingness versus our linear rational deductive reasoning mind is one main indication that we are really reporting data from the signal line. I am sharing this information to really try to discern this very important distinction which I think lies at the bottom of accurate remote viewing. I would love to hear others views on this matter. Thank you, Stephen
> How do we know if the data we are obtaining from our RV session is > true or false data. How can we tell if our imagination is running > wild and just filling in us with inaccurate data in order to have > something to write?
Target something that's destined to turn up in next week's newspaper and you'll know for sure... right?
<<I'm having a very difficult time rearranging my concept of time-space. It is difficult, but I know that to continue to grow I must redefine my view of how we, humans, relate to time-space. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?>>
Nancy replies: Eric, remember that Joe says in his book that to the degree that you are willing to throw out your entire conception of how the universe works, to that exact degree you can be a good RVer.
Best Wishes (and thanks again to Joe),
> <<I'm having a very difficult time rearranging my concept of > time-space. It is difficult, but I know that to continue to grow I > must redefine my view of how we, humans, relate to time-space. Does > anyone have any thoughts on this?>>
Perhaps this can help, perhaps not. Time and Space is a matter of perspective against a known. We measure against the reality of the our day to day experience, experienced in a sequence of events what ahs happened a moment ago compared to what we are experiencing this moment against the expectation of what we think we wiull experience. Instead, if you viewed time as a pattern of energy folding on top of itself with moment by moment sequencing of pattern changes, then we can easily see that the patterns never un invent themselves. We perceive it as an experience moment by moment. However, if it were actually patterns of energies (like a holograph), then to get to the pattern of energy we are actually experienceing that pattern signature, while still existing through the pattern we are currently on. My concept is hard to explain, even though I understand my own logic pattern. IOf the pattern is invented and has already been experienced then we simply need to tune the collective pattern to re-experience or to travel to that pattern for information. It is forever recorded against the matrix, like a thought form.
Hope it helps.
Wow! I'm glad I was sitting for that one! We are into three martini territory here now, so I want to be careful that I understand where you're coming from. (Three martini's is the minimum requirement of booze that it will take to "assist" me in changing my views on time space. Since I became interested in this process I have had several of these, but that's for another e-mail.)
I don't know if this is a fair representation of what you are saying, but let me try anyway: my previous concept of time-space is along Einstien's turning a flashlight on as I stand on the front of a train that travels close to the speed of light - how fast I actually travel is completely dependent on my viewpoint i.e. am I watching the flashlight guy from the side of the railroad tracks, or am I on the train behind him? If I'm in the ballpark, then what you say about time space must extend to the same metaphor: my "place" in time-space is entirely dependent on how/where I look at it/from where I look at it. (If this is not what you wrote, forgive me, your message was a little cryptic.)
But what do you mean about the second part: how energy can be thought to fold over itself and how that would relate to one's perception of time-space? (If I am misreading your intent, please, by all means, restate it for me. I am really trying to understand a concept here.)
Perhaps, you could try to explain it to me like I were three. I'm not, but it sure helps when my my wife tries to explain the insurance industry.
> Perhaps, you could try to explain it to me like I were three. I'm > not, but it sure helps when my wife tries to explain the insurance > industry.
It is obvious that you are not three. But, let me try another approach.
Try and look at time and space from outside of it and not inside of it. Relativity assumes that you are viewing it from inside of it, as an active participant and viewer. What I am proposing is that you look it as though you were outside of it in a different place. You might view it as you would looking (not technically participating) with a hologram. If you are inside viewing the hologram, the hologram becomes your only reference and therefore is complete within itself. When you look at time and space as though it were a separate entity, then you can look at it as an ever changing and moving energetic form that moves and changes its shape, while recording each change (much as a video records each impulse on a magnetic tape). I'm not sure if this is a good way to describe it. What is important, is that the impulse that has been recorded won't uninvent itself and the pattern that the impulses of energy takes, are forever recorded as a pattern on the matrix as a historic fact. If you can tune-in to the pattern (psychically by how it feels, or RV by its signature coordinates), then you can recall it like a memory, even though you were physically never there. You can even use a hard disk analogy. What I am trying to get at is that all that happens, once it actually exists is a recorded pattern that can be recalled. Once outside of the time and space environment, you can view it a little differently as an ever changing series of energetic patterns, each recorded as an actual, as opposed to a potential, which can be recalled.
Now, I am not saying that I agree or disagree with the holographic time and space theory. But it is a great analogy to look at it from. I hope that helps. Newtonian Physics says that no two objects can occupy the same space at the same time. Energetically, we know that this is not true, based on research into Higg's already identified 2 Boson Fields (Boson - where two neutrinos occupy the same space at the same time, suggesting realities that we have not yet explored very well.) This brings into play the theory of phase harmonics, which allow for such situations to exist.
>1. Types of Remote Viewing >"Ganzfeld"
You can get a good view of what this about by going to: http://moebius.psy.ed.ac.uk/ganzfeld.html
The target is randomly selected by an individual who then physically goes to the target for a set period of time. The remote viewer is then given the name or photograph of the individual and is asked to describe the location to which they have traveled for that specific period of time. (NOTE: the viewer and monitor are blind to the target). At the end of the specified target period, the outbounder returns and the viewer is provided feedback to the target by traveling back to the original target with the outbounder.
Judging is done by providing a naive judge (blind to the rest of the experiment) the materials of the viewer; and six possible sites (one of which is the correct one.) S/he then attempts to match the viewer materials to the individual sites, first place, second place, etc.
Accuracy is determined by what occurs within a series of these outbounder experiments. (Usually six; but can be as few as four, or as many as you'd like to do.)
Is set up to answer a specific question outside a specific time loop. So, it requires certain conditions be set up prior to targeting. These are:
(1) You must first have decided on a question with a possible response that is a binary (yes or no, I or O, Go or no-go, etc.) There is actually a third possibility which is "do nothing" or "make no decision."
(2) You must then know when this decision will be made (say on a Friday.)
(3) You must then know when the decision can be effectively judged as appropriate--feedback (which may be Saturday.)
(4) Then you must establish a point of feedback to the viewer (Sunday.)
(5) Targeting takes place after someone independent of the rest of the experiment has decided on what will represent the binary issue; e.g.,
Yes equals "a tree" No equals "a pond" (this is done on the previous Monday.)
Then you can proceed:
QUESTION: Should I buy stock A on Friday. Yes = tree/no = pond/no decision = bad description of either.
(1) TUESDAY: The viewer is asked to describe what will be shown to them on Sunday.
(2) TUESDAY: A judge is assigned to evaluate what the viewer said, against what the possible targets are (tree or pond). This judge does not know what they represent. Judging is done on the same day as the viewing. What he believes is the target is passed along to the person who orginally determined the targets.
(3) WEDNESDAY: The person who originally selected the targets is told which target was selected (lets say in this case it was the pond). And based on POND = NO, no purchase of stock A is made on Friday.
(4) SATURDAY: Person who originally selected the targets (tree and pond) reads the paper and sees that s/he should have bought Stock A (YES). He reports to RV judge that actual target is the TREE.
(5) SUNDAY: Viewer is taken and shown a TREE. Viewer is dissapointed because they are wrong.
>(other? Please add them)
Maybe folks should get a handle on these before we go laying a bunch of more complicated things on them. Most don't understand simple viewing to begin with.
>2. Methodologies often used in conjunction with Remote Viewing >Protocol >"Controlled" remote viewing (CRV)
Ingo Swann's FORMAT for producing psychic information within an approved Remote viewing protocol.
>"Extended" remote viewing (ERV)
What the old unit decided to call everything else that isn't Ingo Swann's method.
>(other? Please add them)
SRV Courtney Brown's view of Remote Viewing. Not to be confused with remote viewing as everyone else knows it to be.
TRV Ed Dame's view of Remote Viewing, new and improved over Ingo Swann's remote viewing. etc., etc., etc., etc.,
[Archive Note: Joseph McMoneagle, former U.S. Intell RV]
Just to let you know that I've had a little break in all my other activities and managed to get caught up on a few things (no, not everything--only a FEW things ;-). The upshot is that there are some new items on my Remote Viewing Instructional Services, Inc. webpage, including a (well-intended) rebuttal to Ed May on the topic of whether RV can be trained--which, as you know, has lately been a hot subject; also a slightly updated version of "Why Learn RV?"; and some suggested guidlines for conducting demonstration sessions. There are also updated links and a few other miscellaneous items as well. Feedback/suggestions for improvements or additions is/are welcomed.
You can find the page at: http://www.rviewer.com/
[Archive Note: Paul Smith, former U.S. Intell RV]
Mike CT wrote: >Could this be related more to belief structures and desire than to >latent ability? >Maybe your findings suggest that 1 or 2 % of the population is of >this mindset. >Is there any eveidence that genetics plays any part of this? Can a >good RVer's son/daughter/grandson etc also RV well? It would seem >that mindset and genetics would be 2 factors that would contribute to >this observation of 1-2%. Are there others?
These are all good questions for which there are no answers, yet. Would be neat to have a pile of money to find out.
[Archive Note: Joseph McMoneagle, former U.S. Intell RV]
>I've lurked for quite a while and didn't dare join in, but Liams' >comment about "First Time Effect" came at the right time.I have read >all the "wrong" books and am now half way through Joe McMoneagle's >Mind Trek. snip
I do not think you read the wrong books. You read the books you needed to read. The proof is you knew they were the wrong books. Joe is the expert in the field of ERV. IMO he has no ego building or hidden agendas. "The First Time Effect" works in other areas than RV. That is why I never play poker with someone who has not played before. First time effect ie sometimes called "Beginners Luck."
snip >pool, with a side walk on the right, 2 palm trees in the foreground, >and dark green, tropical foliage around it. It scared me. All the >lines I drew fit the golf picture too.
One rule for a monitor in getting useable information from a session is the question: Is it raw data or is the info analytical. If it is raw data it is usually correct. If it is analysis it is usually wrong, particularly in the early part (stage 1 & 2) of the session.
snip >and tried to draw it backwards. It was a weird Dutch roofline. I saw >it as though I was inside the picture looking out, and completely >reversed it.
Marilyn, I live in Holland and I would aprreciate it if you would stop viewing my house. I knew I felt a waiver in the force. There is a tendency in RVing to reverse image. I do not know why. I just worked a site and reported there was a villiage there running on a diagonal line on a North easternly axsis. The monitor is experienced and will know that could just as easily be a south westernly axis.
>I have been busy relocating an aged relative and haven't had any time >to try RV in several weeks. snip.
IMHO. helping others is an excellent way to get ready to RV. Also resting after a success is good policy.
snip >I am delighted that I found >the right place at the right time. I will explain that another day.
I am delighted you were led here when you were ready.
Welcome Marilyn. I am looking forward to seeing more messages from you. Enjoy the journey.
May the force be with you
[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]
"The First Time Effect" works in other areas than RV. >That is why I never play poker with someone who has not played >before. First time effect is sometimes called "Beginners Luck."
Now I see what happened to me in Las Vegas in 1955. I rolled 12 straight passes at the crap table in the old Pioneer casino. People got real attentive after the 4th or 5th hit. The pit boss showed up. I made guys rich! They were giving me new dice for every roll. I got really nervous. I was so green I didn't let the money ride -- so I ended up with $300. Sigh.
"If youth knew. If age could." (French aphorism.)
>A serious Q:- Is there any way to find where to go, > through RV.
I'd sure like to get an answer to this question!!
-- Dean -- from Des Moines (KB0ZDF)
>>A serious Q:- Is there any way to find where to go, >> through RV.
Why don't you use dowsing. Get a map of the world, mark the corner of a blank piece of paper so you can overlay it in the exact same position again when you're finished dowsing. Then drag a ruler across (from three directions so you can triangulate) and wait for a bump, or a blip, or some indication when the ruler has hit "the spot." You might be surprised at what happens.
We practiced this in Lyn's class and most were amazingly accurate when locating real locations. Interestingly, in one session I was looking for Grasswood, AZ and came fairly close to nailing it, but I also got a second location while I was dragging and marking. It was "Greenwood." I guess my subconscious wasn't sure which I meant, or was just being helpful in case I'd confused Green and Grass. ;-)
Seems like many of us are on the move :-) Lyn's ambiance exercise helped us in choosing the right place for us. We just kind of threw the thought out there and followed our intuition. Got lots of feedback from the ambiance exercise (I think it's on PJ's web page but I'm not sure), strong emotional and physical feedback and tried to keep our left brain out of it and let it happen. It worked (if I can borrow the Irishman's explanation) like magic!
> Seems like many of us are on the move :-) Lyn's ambiance exercise > helped us in choosing the right place for us. We just kind of threw > the thought out there and followed our intuition. Got lots of > feedback from the ambiance exercise (I think it's on PJ's web page > but I'm not sure), Vickie
No luck searching Firedocs for ambiance or ambiance_exercise, any one knowing where to locate this info, I would appreciate a copy of the email forwarded or the addy where it is archived.
Moderator's Note: Aloha Yaana. The exercise isn't on Firedocs. I think this is one of Lyn Buchanan's personal exercises, not part of formal CRV. (Though like much of his stuff it's extremely useful.) He hands it out in class. The only thing on Firedocs is a couple variants of Lyn's "active vocabulary development" exercises. I guess you could ask him if he's willing to have it put online, in which case I will. I don't normally share anything from CRV training unless the person I got it from says it's okay. -- PJ
>As far as I can tell from this newsgroup, most of us are beginners. >I know I am. But I can feel that so many of us truly feel a NEED to >learn Remote Viewing. We have been drawn to it. I hope that the >others are as commited to this as I am. I think time will be the >final test.
I am back, and I will get the outbound feedback out soon. I have made similar comments in private posts to other group members. I truly believe that all of us were brought together for a reason. I have no idea what that reason is, but I believe more will be revealed as we trudge the road of happy destiny. (My apologizes and thanks to the original author).
If you feel you were drawn here, then you probably were. Trust your feeling (or subconscious). Learn RV. When the time is right you will know how and for what to use it.
Best wishes Slainte
May the force be with you
[Archive Note: Liam, former U.S. Intell RV]
> I am back, and i will get the outbound feedback out soon. I have made > similar comments in private posts to other group members. I truly > believe that all of us were brought together for a reason. I have no > idea what that reason is, but I believe more will be revealed as we > trudge the road of happy destiny. (my apologizes and thanks to the > original author).
My Chinese fortune cookie yesterday said, "You are headed in the right direction."
"Oh, good" I said. "Now, if I can only figure out which of my gazillion directions the fortune cookie spirits were referring too..." ;-)
Like most all of us who have taken the training (and even those who haven't, but have felt compelled to experiment and learn on their own), I had RVing hit me like the proverbial ton of bricks. Almost literally, one day I woke up and *had* to take the training and do this thing.
There are so many potential ways to go with this, it's hard to know exactly what my future will look like (something that drives me crazy). But there's no question that this is a pathway to something. Whether RV will be the end result, or just a step along the way remains to be seen.
>With biological targets are you supposed to describe them or be them?
I think most people would start by describing them.
>And if the answer is the first, how do I stop automatically doing the second?
You don't have to as long as you can make sense of what you are doing....and you can get feedback.
>With an animal, are you targeting that specific creature or >the species?
I think a good question here would be "How do you know the target is an animal while you are in session?"
>Is it more difficult to disconnect from a living creature than a >place?
This probably depends on you.
>Would someone please explain the difference between beginners, >intermediate and advanced targets, giving examples of each.
Actually there is none. In some training systems, a trainer will give you a target and ask for the gestalt. Generally, these are targets like mountains, buildings, etc. Later, the target will have to change so you can apply whatever method you are working on. The reason I said that there is no real difference is because in actual viewing, you would be basically doing the same thing regardless of the target (which would be blind to you and your monitor if you have one).
>How does the beginner know when to move on to the next level.
In "real life" this happens naturally. If you are using CRV, there are things that happen that are used to let the viewer know it's time to change stages. Of course, if you are not using that structure, you may have other signs that let you know when to draw, when to use words and when to use clay. Perhaps this over stressing of stages, courses, etc. is a bit over done.
<< Have the experienced viewers had any luck developing a kind of "sign language" with their subconscious or am I just doing some wishful thinking? >>
Vickie... I cannot over emphasize the need for a good monitor. If you are in the proper state of mind for RV'ing you aren't going to be able to distinguish between an apple and a pineapple... these a human constructs and when you begin labeling or refering the labels you have dropped back into AOL regardless of what you may think... stay with describing the object in sensorial terms and you can avoid those pitfalls... on the other hand your monitor will become very familiar with the way you describe things and can quickly and efficiently distinguish between AOL and true sensorial descriptives and when needed ... gently but firmly direct you out of the AOL mudpit and back to proper format.... you are only cheating on yourself if you think you can call a rose by any other name and not have it be a rose... (with apologies to an old dead Englishman....) Regards.... Gene...
[Archive Note: Gene Kincaid, former U.S. Intell RV]
> If you > are in the proper state of mind for RV'ing you aren't going to be > able to distinguish between an apple and a pineapple...these are human > constructs and when you begin labeling or refering the labels you > have dropped back into AOL regardless of what you may think
Thanks Gene...I am beginning to grasp it. Even after beginning training, my mind wants to name. I think it's a sure sign I need to work on vocabulary. I do have a monitor but I don't think we've done enough sessions together to grasp any particular AOL vocab pattern since we are both new at it. Maybe I should just increase my descriptives and that would solve the problem. It's a hard one since the images just pop up. It seems like my SC is trying to explain the target by showing me images that have a portion of what I'm supposed to get but if I describe those images, most of the descriptives are wrong. I am probably analyzing before I realize that I am. Thanks for pointing it out ; -)
How do you investigate your probable future through RV.
(I DON'T mean winning the lottery, (silent prayer).<G>.)
Oh great ones, oh gurus of RV, oh magicians of the ether, oh cosmic consciousness beings of light, (OK I think thats more than enough sucking up)
I acknowledge that I am only an RV beginner. I am also looking ahead at my remaining years to come. There is still time to do something more, with my life, that I feel is _really_ worthwhile.
Now don't laugh. Suppose, I wanted to learn RV well enough that I could use it professionally, eventually teach it, and to create a team to run my own AWP in the UK. Presumably, I would have to come out to the States for "proper" training. I would need to know the logistics of it, both time wise and financially. I see that there are various courses by the real pros for beginners, through advanced. Obviously. I couldn't come out just for 1 week, then come all the way back.
So, for me, and for others who want to study things seriously, to a professional status, what is the best way to go about doing so.
Only when I have this information can I begin to formulate a long term plan.
Assuming you realize that it takes a few years of serious practice just to get decent yourself -- and lots of other knowledge to understand how it works in context, in teams, and in intelligence gathering [of any kind] -- it seems to me that you have one of two choices: (a) become immensely rich so that you can either fly a trainer out to you or fly here to one, repeatedly; or (b) work very hard just like you're doing for quite some time, and then come out to visit here for a few months -- we talked about that privately-- and take the formal CRV training at that time, but after you've accomplished enough on your own that you'll be able to go through the classes (normally spaced out by months) fairly quickly.
There is simply a ton of RV-related information that anybody truly serious ought to familiarize themselves with, much of which would be highly relevant to training or to running a team for intell collection purposes. Much of that can be researched in libraries, online, and through individuals. Most of it relates to work done, and discoveries made, in the science lab, and a lot of this stuff is old news to scientists but still waiting to be "discovered or invented" by most people working in the psi fields including RV.
I think if you want to do this in the future, the main things useful to work on might be: (a) learning "about" the RV subject, by which I don't mean methodologies, I mean psi science studies and so on; (b) practicing your butt off on your own psi skills under proper RV protocol; and (c) working toward having the money and time to get out here for a few months, maybe in six months or a year, whenever it becomes workable between you and an instructor.
Just my $0.02.
END ARCHIVE 61
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