Remote Viewing

Joseph W. McMoneagle

The End of the Line / Sightings on the Radio
with Jeff Rense

Sunday, March 2nd, 1997 8:00pm - 11:00pm Pacific Time

Featured Guests
Dr. Edwin C. May and Joseph W. McMoneagle

Transcript File 3 of Total 7

Transcribed by PJ Gaenir,

Transcribed from audio cassette which was courtesy of Jeff Rense.

This is a "general" transcript. It does not include every syllable.

File 3 of 7 in this series.

Continued from previous file.

MAY: Amazing answer. So if Joe McMoneagle can hit 80% and have an 80% accuracy rate, I find it hard to believe the government wouldn't extend for that.

RENSE: Me too.

MAY: OK. Good answer. Hour number 1 with Dr. Edwin May is now complete, we'll be back right after news with Joe McMoneagle and Dr. Ed May here at the End of the Line.


RENSE: Welcome back everybody, hour number two. Joining Dr. Edwin May, a U.S. physicist, for the second hour and the third hour as well, is Joe McMoneagle, one of the six original government top secret military remote viewers. Joe McMoneagle was the only subject who stayed in the program its entire period of existence, from October 1978 right on through November 1995. He was also one of [only] two subjects [who] participated in both the applications side and the R&D side of remote viewing. Joe McMoneagle has now done over 4000 remote viewings, for the record, meaning under strict controls. He has done seven "put to the test" type RV's where he has done remote viewings on camera live while under very strict controls. Those include an ABC news special, Reader's Digest home video, and several other programs including a live remote view for CNN. Generally speaking, Joe McMoneagle's statistics for 19 years are like this: out of any 100 targets, he can be expected to hit the target about 55-60% of the time. Of the targets he hits on, he will get anywhere from 45-85% correct information on the average, on those target. On the targets he hits on, about 15-50% of the drawings of those targets will be near perfect overlays for the photographs of the actual target -- almost as if, as you heard Dr. Ed May say -- they were traced right over the photograph. So, remarkable talent, very happy to have him with us for this hour, hello to Joe McMoneagle. Hi Joe.

MCMONEAGLE: Hello Jeff, how are you?

RENSE: Fine thank you. This is a very sophisticated field that we're talking about tonight, very interesting, full of lots of strange energies, even if Ed May says you can't influence other people's minds {Ed laughs} -- my mind is alive and alert. I don't know folks, I've walked into rooms full of people all my life, and I've found people put out vibrations, if you want to call it that, and I don't know how you'd feel about that Joe, but do you think people can sense other people's thoughts and feelings pretty easily sometimes?

MCMONEAGLE: Well, it may occur spontaneously. I've seen a couple of experiments where we've captured the essence of something like that in a lab scenario. But for the most part I think when people walk into a room, what they're doing is they're processing the room in its entirety, I mean someone crossing their arms the wrong way can deliver a message, so it may be subtle, but it may not necessarily be psychic.

RENSE: Interesting. So, we see in our daily lives, through our five senses, all sorts of things that can predispose reactions and trigger reactions.

MCMONEAGLE: Oh absolutely. Just the way you present yourself to someone will have an effect.

RENSE: How is that you stayed in this program as long as you did?

MCMONEAGLE: Well mostly, I was lucky in that I was able to spend a great deal of it in the research side, where my curiosity probably kept me going. I'm not sure I could have lasted that length of time had I just stayed in the military, or the applications side of the program.

RENSE: When you first became interested in this field, how did the government actually latch onto you? What was the mechanism involved?

MCMONEAGLE: Well originally what they did is they actually designed a criteria, or a list of criteria, that they felt would probably identify individuals that had some talent. They didn't know if this would work or not, but in the development of those criteria, they then went around and interviewed hundreds of individuals within the Army intelligence command, and I fell out as a result of some of those interviews.

RENSE: Hmmn. And you first met Ed May when?

MCMONEAGLE: I actually met Ed May when I first went out to SRI in October of 1978 to be exposed to remote viewing. He participated in some of my original six experiments, was either the outbounder or participated in some way.

RENSE: With respect to working as a remote viewer for all these years, there were six of you. Were you a tight knit group, did you know each other well, did you spend time together, in this program?

MCMONEAGLE: The original six people, we were very much a tight knit group. In the original group, there were two women, but they did not stay in the program very long, as the structure of the command was not supportive to women at the time. So they felt that they weren't being given as much respect perhaps as the male participants.

RENSE: Was there a lot of pressure on you because of the Cold War, were you aware of the fact that you were in a very top secret position, and did you feel some sort of incumbent responsibility to exercise your talents any more creatively than you otherwise might?

MCMONEAGLE: Well, actually, I was in an extremely important position when I was recruited for the project, and it was with curiosity that I actually started my participation. Originally I was working part time in the project, and the project was designed to just address the issue of whether or not it could be done. What unfortunately happened is we were overtaken by a serious situation, which was the Iran hostage scenario, and as a result of the difficulties in collecting intelligence on that, we were given the task of trying to target it. And it worked so well in fact that it sort of opened the barn doors.

RENSE: Can you share any of that with us tonight?

MCMONEAGLE: Well I can talk a little bit about the Iran hostage problem. One of the difficulties of course was the inaccessibility to the embassy compound in Tehran. Using remote viewers we were able to produce some interesting insights with regard to who was holding the hostages, where they were being held, their conditions, their mental and physical state. We were addressing problems such as which would be a possible ingress/egress route to the compound, booby traps that might have been set, a whole raft of different things.

RENSE: Now you're mentioning a lot of things here, you're not talking too specifically about them, but I get the impression that these were the areas that you had some success with.

MCMONEAGLE: We had a number of significant successes. We also had a number of just outright failures. It was a new process and we were trying to adapt it to an emergency situation.

RENSE: Joe were you involved in any way in planning that attempted -- you must have been -- hostage rescue mission that went so terribly awry in the desert?

MCMONEAGLE: Well there's a lot of reasons why that happened. Let's just say that I think the President made the right decision when he decided to call that particular raid off.

RENSE: Hmmn. OK. What are some of the misbeliefs about what you did with the government? What do people think that happened that really didn't happen?

MCMONEAGLE: There's a lot of misconceptions about remote viewing that have sort of been birthed out of the media frenzy that followed the disclosure about the project. Some of those beliefs are that remote viewing can be used very well for locating missing people or lost objects, that sort of thing, and in fact that's probably one of the most difficult things that it can be used for; there's a lot of complications that come about when you're trying to use it for location purposes. There's also a misconception that it's used to specifically target individuals in some way that's nefarious, when in fact the only reason for even having a person as a target would be to obtain a description of the location in which they might be standing, that it would be important for another reason.

RENSE: Let's talk about the Gulf War. There was a lot of talk that there was a big priority on killing Saddam Hussein, were the remote viewers used to your knowledge at that time to try and locate Saddam Hussein, can you talk about that?

MCMONEAGLE: What I can say about it is that in my perception, no one was targeted against this Saddam Hussein for, you know, an attempt on his life or anything directly. In reality what we do know is that in the beginning of a conflict or a war that we're going to be involved in, the head commander or the leader of the nation that you're fighting is more than likely going to be locating himself within proximity to his centralized command and control center, or his center of communications. If you don't know specifically where that is, and you have a possible say four locations, then remote viewing can provide you with a sufficient description of perhaps a building or a location that will then help identify which of those locations they may be located in.

RENSE: You had a long career in the military. You're a remote viewer now and you're given a target -- are you given all the parameters for that target, are you told in a total sense what the mission is about, or are you pretty much pigeonholed and kept focused on one item?

MCMONEAGLE: No actually, the way the targeting is done, the actual target material is selected by someone who does not participate in the collection of the information. It may be a black and white photograph showing the roof of a building, or it may be a picture of a doorway leading into a specific building, and that's given of course to the remote viewer by someone who also has no knowledge of what that means. And that may come with a question like, "Can you draw a diagram of the floor plan for the building to which this is the doorway?"

RENSE: And that's it?

MCMONEAGLE: That's it. And then based on what you might draw, they may come back and say, we have an interest in this room you labeled "the D room" or "room 13" or whatever.

RENSE: Now Dr. May, you're still there?

MAY: Yes I am.

RENSE: Good. Anything to contribute at this point?

MAY: Well I would like to back up, in the introduction, the statistics you gave for Joe's lifelong career statistics, and I can say having been part of most of that in the laboratory, it's not at all an exaggeration, which is what one hears often, too much in this field.

RENSE: Joe how do you feel about these people, and I'll name names here, they're out there in public, Courtney Brown, who allegedly studied remote viewing under Ed Dames, Ed Dames in particular has lately been talking about some large cylindrical object traveling with the Hale-Bopp comet which is supposedly full of deadly pathogens of one kind or another -- ah, how do you feel about that, after having been in the program for much of your professional life?

MCMONEAGLE: Well, my experience -- you know, I can't comment on where they're getting their ideas, but what I can say is based on my own experience and what I've observed, I don't know a single person that participated in the program that was a good remote viewer that didn't spend somewhat in excess of two years in training, and that by training I mean exposure to remote viewing and hammering away at it, practicing on a day to day basis for that two year period. So I don't know anyone's being taught, in the amount of time they say they're being taught in.

RENSE: So $3000 in 10 days makes no sense to you.

MCMONEAGLE: No, in fact, most of the technology can be delivered in probably about eight or nine hours.

MAY: Jeff may I butt in here for a second?

RENSE: Sure.

MAY: What's very clear from Mr. Dames's own personal records is that he was never, never underlined, a remote viewer for the Army project. His role in that was an interviewer to interview other remote viewers. He was not a remote viewer.

MCMONEAGLE: That's correct.

RENSE: Interesting. And he, he taught Courtney Brown as I understand it.

MAY: Right.

MCMONEAGLE: That's what I understand.

RENSE: He has been quoted as saying he is not happy with Courtney Brown because Mr. Brown didn't finish the program, and then went off and launched his own school to teach it. There is some interesting backbiting going on there.

MAY: I had the experience of listening to Ed Dames while, I think he was interviewed on another talk show overnight. Where he made that claim about there's some serious pathogen that he remote viewed accompanying the comet -- and quite frankly, I feel in my own view that that's -- exceptionally irresponsible, in the following way. Let's give Ed Dames the benefit of the doubt, and say he has a hit rate as good as Joe McMoneagle's, and he's accurate say, gets the right answer in a lab setting, 50% of the time. That means he's got a 50/50 chance of this being wrong. And to scare an awful lot of innocent people with this seeming authority is just irresponsible to all concerned, in my view.

RENSE: Yeah. Alright, we're gonna pause here for a couple of moments and come right back with Joe McMoneagle and Dr. Ed May, here at The End of the Line.


Next transcript section

This is file 3 of 7 in a series

Transcribed by PJ Gaenir,
PJ Gaenir's Firedocs Remote Viewing Collection:


Jeff Rense Sightings on the Radio web site:

Dr. Edwin C. May is the Director of, and Joseph W. McMoneagle an associated of, the Cognitive Sciences Laboratory:

The Firedocs Remote Viewing Collection features Joseph McMoneagle here.
You can get Joe's book at major booksellers or: 1-800-766-8009

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Joseph W. McMoneagle