Remote Viewing

Joseph W. McMoneagle

The End of the Line / Sightings on the Radio
with Jeff Rense

Sunday, March 2nd, 1997 8:00pm - 11:00pm Pacific Time

Featured Guests
Dr. Edwin C. May and Joseph W. McMoneagle

Transcript File 5 of Total 7

Transcribed by PJ Gaenir,

Transcribed from audio cassette which was courtesy of Jeff Rense.

This is a "general" transcript. It does not include every syllable.

File 5 of 7 in this series.

Continued from previous file.

RENSE: Alright we're back, with Joe McMoneagle -- when you talked about General Dozier Joe, I was thinking of the CIA station chief in Beruit who got kidnapped -- what was that case about, and did you have anything to do with that one?

MCMONEAGLE: Actually, it was a Colonel Higgens, I believe that was his name. He was moved around quite frequently from area to area, over an extended period of time. And over that extended period of time he was murdered by his captors.

RENSE: Were you folks involved in trying to track him, can you talk about that at all?

MCMONEAGLE: He was actually tracked by us, and fairly accurately, of course there was no way to know at the time that the descriptions we were giving matched fairly closely with many of the locations that he was actually being held in. That was later confirmed by other hostages that had been held with him.

RENSE: Alright, what we're gonna do is give the phone number out now,1-800-298-8255. If you have any questions about remote viewing, you won't get a better opportunity than this one, to ask two of the best on the planet. Damien has called in early from Florida, and go ahead Damien, you're on the air.

CALLER: {dryly} Man, I feel so safe when I hear these fine, fine intelligence officers. I'd like to ask them something. In what as known as your... in other words, you guys are so sharp, why don't you report that in 1953 Eisenhower, with John Foster Dulles, gave the order for the assassination of a great leader by the name of Laboomba {sp?} that eventually, let's see, who was the station chief down there at that time, a gentleman named Frank Carlucci, and you know who Carlucci was --

RENSE: Damien are you talking about Patrice Lamoomba, the African leader?


RENSE: Well that wasn't 1953, that was subsequent to that, and we're getting a little off the subject here, do you have a direct question you want to ask? That's fine if you do.

CALLER: Well I - ah - OK. I would like to know in what year the CIA got involved in the biological warfare, because we started it, you know that.

RENSE: OK, alright, that's a little bit askew here, but we'll ask if either one of the gentlemen want to comment about the nefarious world of biological chemical warfare weaponry that we're so deeply involved with -- didn't have much to do with remote viewing but -- were you called upon at any time Joe to try to do any remote viewing regarding anyone else's chemical and biological warfare weapons?

MCMONEAGLE: There were numerous occasions when we did target biologic warfare facilities. I can't say when or where, but we did do that. I of course was an Army intelligence officer, so I don't know a great deal about most of what the CIA does, although I did remote viewing for the CIA.

MAY: Let me reiterate as I said earlier that the CIA had very little direct involvement in the day to day activity; they certainly tracked it and did some tasking, but most of the work was handled by DIA and other intelligence agencies.

RENSE: Alright, we're gonna take our next break and come back. ...Give us a call and your questions will be answered by two of the best, right here at The End of the Line.


RENSE: OK, we should tell you that Joe McMoneagle has a book called "Mind Trek," coming out in about a month from Hampton Roads Publishing, it was first published in 1993, obviously a book to get and to read, maybe the best one yet in the field. There is a web site for Dr. Ed May, I'll give you that for those of you online, And we will go to the phones now, Jim is listening in by satellite in Vermont. Hi Jim, you're on the air.

CALLER: You got a great show. [RENSE: Thank you Sir.] Jeff, one thing, you're not afraid to be the devil's advocate, and the two gentlemen you have with you have been really honest.

RENSE: I think you're right.

CALLER: You know, it's not like the Courtney Brown and Ms. Calabrese?

RENSE: Prudence Calabrese.

CALLER: They seem to have disappeared off the map here for awhile. I don't know what his guests think of that --

RENSE: Well the heat in the kitchen got a little hot I think.

CALLER: I would say so. And you haven't been afraid to say, you know, penny-wise, pound-foolish, and let the wallet beware.

RENSE: Do you have a direct question Jim?

CALLER: Yes Sir. You gentleman have not been out really advocating books and everything else out here tonight, you've been just telling the story the way you feel remote viewing works, correct?

MAY: Correct.

MCMONEAGLE: That's essentially correct.

CALLER: And you haven't broken any security oaths?

MCMONEAGLE: Try not to.

MAY: Really. I don't wanna go to jail.

CALLER: Yes Sir. And you have a lot of believers, and you gotta realize that some of the former programming that was on other networks has broken a lot of people's faith in some of the talk shows, outside of Mr. Rense's show.

RENSE: Thank you Jim. That's what we're here to do, and people like you out there care, and that's what makes it all very much worthwhile.

CALLER: It's the only one worth listening to. [RENSE: Thank you.] So what can you tell us to help reassure the folks that there is a real scientific basis in remote viewing, and that we are not being just scammed for dollar signs, like the fellow down in Atlanta?

RENSE: OK Jim, good question, okay guys, what he wants to know is, if this is a real science, and we've been spending on our money, although not that much of it compared to what goodness knows the government spends on other programs, have we been spending it validly and wisely?

MAY: Well let me start off, and then Joe you might want to chime in here. First off, as Jeff indicated when the show began, that I'm currently the President of the Parapsychological Association, and I think most of your audience has probably heard of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, which is the supremo scientific organization which all the member organizations belong to, like the American Chemist's Society, American Physics Society, and we could not be a member of this august organization if our membership did not conduct experiments that conformed to the strictest rules of experimental protocols. And there are journals that are peer-reviewed, and we beat up on each other mercilessly to make sure we get the best possible science. So I can assure your listening audience that there is no question whatsoever, based not just on our laboratory results but based on the results of our lab in conjunction with laboratories all over the world for the last 25 years, that there is a phenomenon that we call ESP or Remote Viewing.

RENSE: Very good, well stated Ed. We're gonna break now for news and come back, and continue here at the End of the Line with Joe McMoneagle and Dr. Ed May.


RENSE: Welcome back everybody, our guests tonight Edwin May PhD, Dr. May who has been for some time now the Director of the Laboratories for Fundamental Research in Palo Alto, and who has presided over 70% of the $20 million spent to date by the government on remote viewing and parapsychological research, 85% of the data to date has been produced under Dr. May's watch. We also have with us Joe McMoneagle, whose new reissued book MIND TREK is due out in about a month, and we'll talk more about that. Joe of course, one of the original six government military remote viewers, who was with the program in its entirety from October 1978 through November 1995, who has done over 4000 remote viewings under strict controls, who has a remarkable success rate; 55-60% of the time he will get hits; of the targets he actually hits on, he usually scores between 45 and 85% correct information on each one of those hits. And 15-20% of the times he acquires his target, it will be as clear as if a tracing was done of a photograph, it is that accurate. We are very happy to have these gentlemen here tonight, we are trying to clear the air and bring focus to the phrase remote viewing, which has been dragged through the dirty wash in the last year, to be honest folks. So let's go back to the phones now and talk to Kyle, listening in on WICC in Bridgeport Connecticut. Hi Kyle you're on the air.

CALLER: Hi Jeff Rense. Southern Connecticut loves the End of the Line, which we hear on the Talk America radio network. We only get to hear you for two out of three hours on Sunday night, this happens from midnight till 2am. But my question, I'll get right to it -- it's like being fed meager, tiny portions of a delicious meal, and we look forward to every Sunday night here in Connecticut. [RENSE: Thank you Kyle, thanks very much.] My question for your guest remote viewer: I have only partial knowledge of, but I hope that my description will help you answer it -- apparently, a member of the rock group Iron Butterfly became involved in the field of physics. And was working on something very obscure and very secretive. This member of Iron Butterfly has disappeared. The great Congressman from the state of Ohio, James Traficant, has become involved in finding this member of Iron Butterfly. And from what I understand, he has employed the use of a remote viewer from the United States government, and I -- because I only have partial knowledge, I wish I could describe to you more of what I'm asking -- I'm wondering if your remote viewer knows anything of what I'm talking about, or if there's anything he'd add to quench my curiosity.

RENSE: Ok Kyle, well stated -- Joe, it sounds like an interesting case, have you heard anything about it?

MCMONEAGLE: Absolutely nothing. I'm obviously not the remote viewer working on it. That doesn't mean there isn't one working on it. There's a number of ex-members of the project who probably might be. I wouldn't know where to begin to guess which one, but like I said earlier, trying to locate missing individuals is extremely difficult using remote viewing.

CALLER: Yes I remember you saying that, which made me think right back to this. This was on the show "Strange Universe" which is a television show, which talks about controversial subjects like this. I have a great respect for remote viewing, and that our government invested money in it; James Traficant, a Democrat from Ohio, is a Congressman who does not stick to the party line, he does what's right for the right thing, I'm not sure you're familiar with him, he's a good man, and it's unfortunate, I feel bad that you don't know the story I'm talking about. The Iron Butterfly fellow had something to do with physics, tachyons, breaking the speed of light. He disappeared, and apparently before his disappearance he said to his wife, "If I ever claim to commit suicide, don't believe it." And lo and behold months later, he said he was going to commit suicide. But I guess we've hit a dead end here.

RENSE: Well it's an interesting scenario, I didn't catch the program on TV, but do keep us posted Kyle, I'll put my feelers out and see what we can pull in on this end, thanks for bringing it to our attention.

CALLER: Thank you very much, and thank you for End of the Line.

[Transcriber note: The caller is referring to ex-DIA remote viewers Paul Smith and Leonard Buchanan. The television show Strange Universe featured a segment on "The Assigned Witness Program," an organization founded by Buchanan which for free uses Remote Viewers to assist law enforcement officials in solving crimes and locating missing children. In this case, Smith and Buchanan were featured working as Viewer and Monitor, respectively, on the missing person case of Philip Taylor Kramer, the musician/physicist mentioned.]

RENSE: You're welcome very much, and thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it very much. Let's go on to Ed at Naugatuck Connecticut, listening to WATR, Ed you're on the air.

CALLER: Yes, I have some questions for you guys. At what point did the DIA say, knew that the Soviets were for real, when it came to breaking down the wall in Berlin, and they were serious about giving up their military power and not be a threat to the United States -- at what point did the U.S. feel secure enough with that knowledge, and did the Vatican, through the Pope, was he an intermediary, in other words, did the parapsychologists on both sides communicate with each other, and have the Vatican as the demarcation line, in other words a safe place for that?

RENSE: OK, I think we have the question, let's see what the gentlemen have to say Ed, thank you.

MAY: Well, um, to my knowledge, prior to the fall of communism and the fall of the wall in Berlin, there was very little communication between the sides, except scientist to scientist at professional meetings. It was known however the Soviets were involved in this, there was a well known information theoretical scientist name I.N. Kogan [sp?] in Russian, who wrote a paper in the early 1970's in Russia titled "Is Telepathy Possible?" And it wasn't until 1992 that we were able to meet with professor Kogan and discuss issues, you know, points of common interest.

RENSE: Did you meet with him Dr. May?

MAY: Yes, I did.

RENSE: Did you feel that you were getting the whole story from him when you talked to him, do scientists usually 'fess up?

MAY: No question about it. In 1992 when I first met Kogan I said "Professor, I've got good news and bad news." I said, "One of your theories that you wrote about in 1971 I think is wrong. The good news, here's another part of it that I think is right." And he said, well I'm glad you feel that way Ed, because I think that is the exact case today. We had a marvelous exchange, and we are in constant contact with each other now.

Next transcript section

This is file 5 of 7 in a series

Transcribed by PJ Gaenir,
PJ Gaenir's Firedocs Remote Viewing Collection:


Jeff Rense Sightings on the Radio web site:

Dr. Edwin C. May is the Director of, and Joseph W. McMoneagle an associated of, the Cognitive Sciences Laboratory:

The Firedocs Remote Viewing Collection features Joseph McMoneagle here.
You can get Joe's book at major booksellers or: 1-800-766-8009

Back to the Firedocs Feature Page
Joseph W. McMoneagle