[PSI] Psychic Discussion Group Archives

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Unmoderated. List Owner PJ Gaenir.
This list was closed July 4, 1998

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Begin Archive #004 January 1998

Date sent: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:01:46 GMT
From: Brian Oldham
Subject: Re: [Psi] Decline Effects

At 08:43 AM 1/16/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Brian, again I would direct the group to PEAR's extensive database. In
>particular their Series Position Effects research,

Thanks for the info.

>Also, regards ERV, I know from my own students that over a five day
>training, they do improve with practice. They also tell me that being
>with other students helps their improvement.

Are you really seeing an improvement in ability or merely an
improvement in delivery of what was there all the time?
I.e. (by analogy) perhaps they learned how to make the mental hole
bigger - not the psychic heap.


Date sent: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:01:43 GMT
From: Brian Oldham
Subject: Re: [Psi] Hey has anyone tried......

Hi Palyne :)

After I said:
>>>... frankly I still don't believe that psychic
>>>ability can be developed. Can any parapsychologist tell me

You said:
>This is a topic I'd like to address ...
[etc. snip]

Thanks for your informative and entertaining reply - and the confirmation.
May I come back on one or two points:

>Some people for example are aware of
>intuition and act on it, while others register knowing the data
>clearly via biofeedback but are consciously unaware of it. This
>highlights the likelihood that acquiring psi information and being
>aware of psi information are two different things. This is a
>cognitive process of course but a rather deep-rooted one. I'll call
>this "Psi Awareness" just to differentiate.

This is an interesting point. One that I have not come across before,
but it brings a further question to mind: If a psychic impression is
received which the percipient is aware of and which he intuitively
"knows" is of psychic origin, what quality does that impression have
that makes it different from ordinary sensory input? I was tallking to
a friend about dreaming the other day and we discussed how some
dreams had a peculiar quality of realness (for want of a better description) -
an atmoshere accompanied by some sort of emotion. I thought that
if any dream was of psychic origin then it would be of that sort.

>Second, the decline effect does tend to recoup at least the majority
>of its losses after some time. This is likely related to psychology,
>not psi (as most things are in this category). People's initial
>ability scares them, and their ability suddenly plummets; then over
>time they get more used to the idea and gradually accept things more
>and their ability slowly but gradually rises again, hopefully to at

Hm! a kind of recovery? It rather suggest that psi ability rises and falls
all the time, perhaps in response to all kinds of daily input. Ganzfeld
research shows (I've read) that psi is more likely to happen if the
senses are dampened. I wonder to what degree psi is inhibited
(or induced) after say, running a mile or eating a Big Mac or taking
a bath etc.?

>... but that is not really the same as
>saying for example that however good one is at any given point, they
>are going to get worse. :-) My, that would be pretty depressing,
>wouldn't it...

It depends on what you want. Surely the truth is more important?
If, eventually, it transpires that psi can be discovered and harnessed
like most other physical forces - but not by the methods which
psychics currently expect - then who is going to be disappointed?

>Psi Reception (in my above terms) is -- a wild guess on my part here
>-- probably genetically determined.

I'll go along with that.

>I believe Dr. Dean Radin at the Consciousness Research Labs
>specializes in BF-measured psi and micro-PK effects, so after some
>time, he might be able to provide some data on individuals and their
>performance over time. You can find his home page at

I'm reading his book "The Conscious Universe" right now. Excellent
bedtime stuff - to my wife's annoyance :)

>individuals (particularly abused teens and adults) often display psi.
>(I don't include chidren in this discussion, only because children
>display psi anyway as a natural quality, and it would be difficult to
>differentiate between that and what awareness may be developed as a
>result of dissociation.) In short, psi awareness seems to be a
>"survival skill."

How come more studies are not done on children?

>So, as to whether psi reception can be taught, or improved -- I doubt
>it. There is no evidence for this.
>As to whether psi awareness can be taught, or improved -- probably,
>but it takes a helluva lot of work, and I doubt anybody has got the
>final answer on methods for this.
>As to whether psi communication can be taught, or improved --
>certainly, happens all the time.
>That's my two cents. Well okay, so it was a whole quarter, but I
>like to be complete. :-)

Thanks. I'd have paid more :)


Date sent: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:01:21 -0800
From: Angela Thompson Smith
Subject: Re: [Psi] Hey has anyone tried......

In an ealier post, Brian Oldham told us about how milk seems to keep
fresh for long periods of time, according to his intention and will. I
suggest he reads the work of Cleve Backster who worked with plants, both
large ones, and one celled, like yeasts. He found that a person's
attention and intention could affect the activity of these cells. It also
worked well with an individual's own white blood cells.

What is it that makes milk sour? Mainly small, one celled organisms. So,
perhaps, Brian, you are not affecting the milk, per se, but the
microorganisms that sour the milk.

Kind regards
Angela Thompson
The Inner Vision Institute

Date sent: Sun, 18 Jan 98 00:44 GMT0
From: Daniel Wilson
Subject: Re: [Psi] Keeping things fresh

PJ said:
> >Why would orange juice be more difficult for you than milk?
and Brian said:
> Perhaps he "expected" orange juice to be more difficult.

Why should I ? I'd proved it with milk and meat and bread, whose decay
organisms are all different.

>From my angle, I did my thing with orange juice, because I'd bought too
much, and it simply failed to respond. I was _really_ put out. I'm a
hall-marked meanie and throwing away a pint of orange juice is no joke.
(I was brought up in WW2 and there it was a distinct crime.)

However, you get refusal to respond in healing too, and there you crank
up the intent. (I have theories about all this which I'm constantly
changing, so no need to bore you with them.) So I did it here, twice
(getting more annoyed each time) and eventually the stuff fell into
line, though I haven't tested it fully - I just say: be around when I
need you.

Doing a reading on the matter now, I get that the decay mechanism in
orange juice has to overcome the citric acid and is tougher, so less
open to being influenced by fruitcake humans. (It says "mechanism", not
"organism" - we're talking about an orchestrated process here.)

Dan Wilson

From: "PJ Gaenir"
Date sent: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:48:41 +0000
Subject: Re: [Psi] Keeping things fresh

Hiya Dan,

>From my angle, I did my thing with orange juice, because I'd bought
>too much, and it simply failed to respond. I was _really_ put out.

My ability to sort of... er.... "alter reality" (pretty dramatically
sometimes) comes in cycles with me. In the cycle peaks, it's a
willed thing. It's sort of like saying that I just accept that it's
done, but when in that state of mind, that's a given; outside that
state of mind to do it, I can accept all day and can't seem to "get
there from here." Anyway, so my experience with this sort of thing
(though never with this exact food thing you refer to, which sounds
very interesting) is... sporadic, at best.

When in that mode, I can sort of visualize in my mind the state of
reality or circumstance, present or future. I don't know why my
mind chose this rather odd display. Picture a large chess board with
small squares, and on each square this is a very tall standing domino
(no dots -- just that shape), and each domino is fastened to the
chess board by a string that goes through its middle, so it can turn
in any direction. That's not what it IS, that's just what you'd have
to picture to get the "shape" I see in my head.

Then I ask it to "show me" how it is and/or will be. And the
'dominoes' fall into patterns. I may have a "sense" for instance
that "my pattern" is sort of 45 degrees slanted to the right. Some
of the dominoes are going that way, but sections here and there are
going any which other way, and some are still standing. So I have to
modify the dominoes until a majority of them are 'going my way.'

Except, what I see is the surface; the end result. The 'cause' of
whichever way the dominoes are lying is actually below that. So I
have to "go down a few levels" -- however far it feels right -- and
then I look again, and the board shows me how things lie at that
level. I kind of have to get "under" the level where things first
are different from how I want them to be.

Then I flip over the dominoes that seem appropriate. This reminds me
of that japanese game GO!, which has pieces that are black on one
side and white on the other, and they are laid out on a board with
squares. You flip a piece to your color, and any piece between that
one and another of your color in any of the four directions, flips
over to your color. So with one good move you can actually affect
half the pieces on the board in your direction. But you have to
kind of strategically plan it so that you have 'each end' of the
row in your color. The game can take a really long time and is a big
strategy game. For some reason the process reminds me of this.

I can "feel the resistance" of the dominoes sometimes. Sometimes
they'll flip right back over after I push them my way. I let go and
sense whether or not it is going to 'stay anchored' in the way I laid
them out. If not, I have to go down more levels, to a more
'fundamental' level, and go through the process again. This doesn't
usually take nearly as long as it sounds when I'm writing it out.

Eventually, when I've changed it underneath, and I know it will stay,
I come back up to the top level. Then I look at it again to see how
the pattern has changed. If I've done the deep work right, I've
gotten what I want and most of the dominoes are lying down in
patterns facing the direction I need them to go. Then I kind of
"set" it, like putting an energy around/within it that will "hold" it
in that pattern, and I thank it for everything, and then I let go.

I open my eyes if they were closed, look at something and
deliberately distract myself. At times, reality in both time and
space has _dramatically_ altered through this little meditation, on
the spot, so it may be stupid but it works for me. Like most
meditations -- including archetype work which is my favorite -- I
really have to be in the mode for it though. If I'm not (and alas,
I'm not at the moment, I've been kind of psychically tuned out for
awhile, probably work/life burn-out) there's no point.

So the reason I bored you with all this :-) is because there have
been times when I've been in this mode and it's working for me, when
I sense that it just doesn't WANT to go my way. That there is a
certain way that is "appropriate" and that I really should not be
attempting to force my will on it for the hell of it. A few times, I
went into the meditation anyway.

The first time, I realized that the reason I felt that was because
the top layer (reality) was tied all the way down to some deep
fundamentals, and that changing them would cause OTHER changes that I
was unaware of, but would not be okay with. So I left it.

The other two times, I tried it anyway. It was terrible. I felt
like I was 'wrong' (in an "error of understanding" way), and I just
felt it wasn't going to work. I couldn't get the dominoes to stay.
I was angry about it even, but it was pointless, it wasn't effective.

Maybe there are times when we NEED something to happen, so have a
right to ask. Actually I always feel we have a right to ask -- I'm a
thelemite to the bone -- but maybe when there is either no real need,
or when the situation is kind of our own fault in the first place, it
takes a big amplification of intent to kind of force it into the
'need' level of strength. Just a guess. I'll probably change my
mind about it tomorrow. :-)

>>(I have theories about all this which I'm constantly changing, so
no need to bore you with them.)

If God is still evolving, I see no reason why theories should have to
stay fixed. I'm interested, if you want to share them. There are a
lot of things I'm interested in that the charter of the VWR list
hasn't allowed me to ask people about. Now I finally have a chance.

>>(It says "mechanism", not "organism" - we're talking about an
orchestrated process here.)

Hmmmn. Could be. I think sometimes we are unaware of just how vast
the universe is, even within a quart of orange juice. And there's
LIFE in there, who knows how much, on other levels. So everything we
do affects other consciousness, since in my book, energy is
consciousness, which makes everything in the universe as we know it
sentient. (Sentient but not autonomous, in the case of elementals
either physical or astral/etheric; aware but not self-aware.) My
perception only of course.


Date sent: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:38:21 -0800
From: Angela Thompson Smith
Subject: Re: [Psi] Decline Effects

Brian Oldham wrote:
>Are you really seeing an improvement in ability or merely an
> improvement in delivery of what was there all the time?
> I.e. (by analogy) perhaps they learned how to make the mental hole
> bigger - not the psychic heap.

Hi Brian, yes to both. I believe that everyone has some natural ability.
My role as a teacher is to develop and expand that ability. So, yes the
ability is there already and students do improve with training.

Kind regards
Angela Thompson Smith

Date sent: Sun, 18 Jan 98 00:44 GMT0
From: Daniel Wilson
Subject: Re: [Psi] Gone...lucky you...

Gene said:
> I have some traveling to do for the government...nothing deep dark and
> conspiratorial I assure those of you who believe the
> government is out to get you ... sorry...mostly just inspection type
> stuff

Is this psi in the service of inspection ? Have I bored you with my
story of the sixty amplifier units I agreed to examine in 1979 without
opening them up ? (Six rejects, four with stated mechanical fault, one
with unstated electrical fault, one with obscure mechanical fault I
couldn't describe accurately. Conventional examination showed: passed
units OK; 4 mech fault correct; 1 elect fault removed from trial as
test jig not available; 1 obscure fault was an obscure fault [washer
had half another washer plated onto it]. Company manager too frightened
to proceed with further trials.)

These days I act as part-time Quality Manager for a small electronics
from in SE London, as a relict of my engineering days. In a vendor
audit (examination of supplier's management system) while waiting in
Reception (and checking for unswept-up cigarette butts, always a
portent of a juicy catch) I ask the building to tell me where the
_really_ bad areas are. Then I walk straight there. It's like taking
candy from a baby. And I don't even feel guilty about it.

Dan Wilson

From: "PJ Gaenir"
Date sent: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:58:43 +0000
Subject: Re: [Psi] Devas, Merging, Love

>>I ask the building to tell me where the _really_ bad areas are.
>>Then I walk straight there. It's like taking candy from a baby. And
>>I don't even feel guilty about it.

LOL! That's great!

One of my big fascinations is the sentience in inanimate objects.
Yeah I know, this is beyond what many people can grok, but it works
for me. I have "merged" with a number of objects, concepts, once a
number, not to mention your garden variety entity in the night, and
there is no way that one can have these experiences without realizing
the consciousness in all things.

(My favorite story is the day when on my lunch break at a temp job in
a new city, I sat down alone in the break room, put my soda on the
metal recycling bin (locking trash can) next to me, and fell into a
zen-type-merge with the bin. By the time it was over, we had both
had a religious experience, viewed the universe differently, and were
in love with each other. When I came out of it I was rubbing my skin
against it sensually. (Great thing about psi -- on some level,
EVERYTHING is sensual.) Then you know, break was over, so I went
back to work. My comment in my journal: "Who needs drugs?!" ;-))

I have never really tried to talk to the devas of things, as many
have; I'm totally fascinated with the idea. My obtusely rational
mind just can't come up with a logical method for doing so, and
apparently "Just ask it" seems WAY too obvious.

But when I'm in the zone for psi work I've often had a real problem
falling in love with things though. I've done a lot of energy work
specifically through the heart chakra and it really seems to
sensitize me in that area. I was madly in love with a tree in the
parking lot near my apartment for nearly two years, until I moved.
Every day I saw it and it filled me with this joy that I can only
compare to how I feel when I see my little 16 month old daughter
every morning, come stumbling sleepily out of the room and into my
study her face lighting up with happiness just to be alive. The
whole way the tree stood and grew seemed like a joyous exclamation
point and literally, "Holy." As if it were a living monument to or
adoration of the glory of God. I mean here I am, I sound gushingly
religious, and I am not really at all -- but that's the kind of thing
that happens to me when I'm "in the zone" for "psi experiences."

Someone was just talking to me the other day about this and I didn't
share that I've had that problem too. I hadn't thought much about
this being a side effect until he brought it up.

Not to mention that my response to people gets hypersensitive.
People that I sense negativity from I have to steel myself not to
react to with survival-defense-response. (The people may have done
nothing at all, physically, to give me that idea.) I basically
want to just pick up the nearest object and bop them upside the
head with it. People that I sense warm-gold-energy from I just want
to throw my arms around and kiss on them until they share some with
me. Obviously these can be real problems in social situations. ;-)
(This is PJ's brain on Psi.) I can control it, but it can make you
really miserable in some ways. As anybody knows, being in love with
someone (or something) and not being able to physically express is a
sort of agony.....


Date sent: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:46:18 -0800
From: Angela Thompson Smith
Subject: Re: [Psi] RV and TK

Curran2106 wrote:
> ..remote influencing does not work...PK does not work...

Have you ever checked out PEAR's extensive REG database? They have masses
of data that operators (subjects) CAN significantly influence a random
number generator from a distance - sometimes from around the world? These
are published data from a reputable lab. And what about distant healing?

Kind regards
Angela Thompson Smith
The Inner Vision Institute

Date sent: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:22:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Joan Branch
Subject: Re: [Psi] Hey has anyone tried......


Of course, you have abilities. EVERYBODY comes into this world w/
abilities. They just need to be honed a bit. Let me tell you about my
first encounter w/ the above 'practice.'

In Tomorrow's newspaper I saw what I took to be a long freight train -
solid, curving back into the center top distance in the picture. I was
looking at this object thru a small paned window (I thought). Tomorrow's
paper arrived and, sure enough, there was the picture. But the long solid
train was really a long curving row of full-foliaged trees along a street.
And the small paned window was really the grill of a jailhouse window.
Still.... that wasn't bad for the first time, huh?

Next day, same exercise. This time I saw a black man, sitting on the back
of a convertible and waving. I asked for a name. "Carl" came to me. Next
day: the picture was of Carl (I can't remember his last name right now), the
Olympic Gold runner who was being welcomed home to East St. Louis in a parade.

What does the exercise take? 5 minutes, tops.

"Psychic" gurus of all types are not happy when their clients discover they
can learn to do their own advising. They get very mad when their 'money'
fountain slows to a dribble. But we can ALL do this. Easily. With
practice. It's workable.


Date sent: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:26:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Joan Branch
Subject: Re: [Psi] Hey has anyone tried......

>I wonder to what degree psi is inhibited (or induced) after
>say, running a mile or eating a Big Mac or taking a bath etc.?

WHAT DOES effect psi are drugs like tranquilizers and antidepressants.


Date sent: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:28:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Joan Branch
Subject: Re: [Psi] Hey has anyone tried......

>But, once again, this presumes either that any abilities I might
>have can be developed or that psi can be induced at will.


Psi and/or rv can be induced at will. Using the protocol
Command/Ask:Question. Who, what, where, when, why, and how.

Date sent: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:50:46 -0600
From: Alan Hughes
Subject: [Psi] Hidden and repressed psi

PJ -

Thanks for your detailed reply to my post. (It was known to be an IRA bomb,
by the way. They claimed "credit" and no other group in the UK could mount
an attack that destroyed a large part of the centre of a major city.)

I myself do not necessarily believe that my brother-in-law's premonition
came from his mother in "spirit," even though I do not discount the
possibility of survival after death. This idea did make him even more
worried, however, because he does not want to think about such matters. The
main way that I can help him is to let him forget it.

My reason for mentioning this matter was that there could be a lot of
similar experiences which people are afraid to mention and want to forget,
rather than explore further or put to some kind of use.

The interesting point to me is that there was no direct threat to his life
at the time of his premonition, because the scene of the explosion was
twenty miles away. He did not have to run for his life, as you did in the
experience that you describe. He merely had to alter his intended
behaviour that morning and avoid doing something that he had done safely
for many years. It was not as if he was boarding a plane, which makes many
people nervous. The fact that he did not override his fears shows how
strong they were.

I think that his disturbed mental state over the death of his mother did
sensitise him to something, but to what I do not know. If it was a warning
from his mother in "spirit," how did she know?

Alan Hughes

Date sent: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:44:13 +1100 (EST)
From: Simon Lindsay Hamm
Subject: Re: [Psi] Hidden and repressed psi


From what I know 'everyone' has a hidden PSI ability. It just
those with either training or a higher level of concsiousness that use it.
Your friends experience is actually quite common people I know hhave has
simillar experiences.


From: "johnm"
Subject: [Psi] Psi Enhancement
Date sent: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:07:41 -0600

Hi y'all,

I have been meaning to post something like this for some time
in the VWR list. However I felt that PJ's concern for shielding
her "intell" players from topics that some or all might be
"constrained" from directly addressing made it politically unwise.

The question of why the CIA dumped RV when there was/is
so much evidence that it works has come up many times and
been answered in various ways. Many believe that it is a
"disinformation" tactic and that RV has not, in fact, been
abandoned in the intell community.

Ingo Swann suggests a far more effective approach to enhancing
psi talent. What follows are quotes from his web site. They are
intended merely to whet your appetites. I would hope that most,
if not all of you, know that Ingo essentially invented CRV and is
considered it's guru. Although he tends to be somewhat verbose,
he is IMO a superb teacher who carefully explains the derivation
and meaning of terms that he utilizes. Do yourselves a favor, read
his stuff! His essay on genetics is fantastic.


Start here:


The purpose of this essay is to discuss a relationship between the
genome, genetic engineering, and the superpowers of the human
biomind. I have to point out that this relationship is hardly ever
mentioned elsewhere -- even though it is an obvious one.

So: do the express superpower faculties run in families?
The tradition that they do began, in the West, in ancient Israel whose
prophets ran in families (sometimes skipping a generation or two,
but reemerging later) -- and which phenomenon is adequately recorded in
the OLD TESTAMENT. The Irish take this for granted, as do even today's
remnants of America's Amerindian populations. In short, shamans, seers,
telepaths, clairvoyants probably do run along family lines.

So far as I can determine, this relationship has nowhere been
mentioned either in parapsychology or genetics. It, and its implications,
ARE AVOIDED -- as they would be, of course.

It might be okay to contemplate the genetic engineering of super bodies,
super immune systems, super strength, even super intelligence. But the
genetic engineering of superpowers -- such as mind-reading, telepathy,
clairvoyance or PK --well, this will be another matter, so much so that its
parameters almost surely will be dealt with in deepest secrecy.

And I personally know of one R&D project that lasted for about fifteen
years. That project did resolve some of the signal-to-noise problems that
yielded higher, dependable rates of efficiency. But that project was
finally terminated by subtle hierarchical decision. In this case, AFTER the
increased efficiency could be demonstrated, very high level meetings were
held regarding the "threat" of organized and developed superpowers.
As one dependable source quoted to me, two principal questions were asked:
"Well, do we want achieved mind-readers and Psi spies?" "What if they get
out of our control?" And so, ZAP went that effort -- but not before
organizing to send out unusual press releases to "prove" the inefficiency of the
superpowers -- and also disinformation minions and functionaries to
distort perceptions of what is involved.

I would not usually be so blunt regarding this issue or situation --
because there could be an element of danger involved.


And, by the way, ready or not, welcome to the Age of Superpower DNA
Enhancement. Oh, Yes: I almost forgot. Don't expect to find media reports
on achieving DNA-enhanced superpowers -- for all of this will be kept
TOPMOST-TOP SECRET, and require seven levels of need-to-know above that.

...believe it or not.

End Archive #004 January 1998

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