firedocs archives

Public Viewer Email Group
Archive 017

This is an archive file of the public Viewer [VWR] email list. This list is sponsored by the private Viewer Forum, hosted by Paradigm Systems and Design, and owned and operated by PJ Gaenir. It is dedicated to discussion of the practical aspects, theories and experience of formal psychic methodologies such as Controlled Remote Viewing, and independent efforts by the public interested in working under the formal RV protocol (the set of rules which define "remote viewing" as the term was coined in a science lab). You can find details, rules, and a form for joining the email group here. The list is moderated during operation and archiving. I remove last names and detail locations of contributors (within the archives) for privacy, and signatures for space conservation. I have added notes marking the posts from former U.S. intelligence remote viewers. Archiving of posts is done manually and may not include all posts.

This is the seventeenth archive.

AUGUST 04 1997 TO AUGUST 21 1997

Have there been any reports of children with RV ability?  My six year old has been creeping out his father by telling him what he has stored in boxes on his top shelves in his kitchen....


Hi John,

In response to your Viewer mail questions, here are some possibilities.

1.  The more you focus your attention and concentrate the more you mask the answer and set an expectation of "anything that hard, must be I best make the answer that way."  Your own analytical basis from the subconscious tends to direct the flow differently.

2.  As you do this more and more, you will tend to relax and just allow the information to flow in and you will recognize the process as a gentle flow and not forced.

3.  It does get easier.

4.  Quiet and open focus does not take an intensity of concentration, it takes a quiet open attitude and patience.

Good luck. Rob

Hiya (John?),

>>I thought it was the wrong answer because I concentrated on the visualization rather than the "structure (as Ingo says)".

Since you mentioned you haven't been trained in Swann's CRV structure, I don't know that it's fair to yourself to make any assumptions about what you're not doing according to it.  Until you decide on or are taught a specific structure, I recommended giving up preconceptions about what you are "supposed" to do (especially if you don't have any details on what that is!), and instead just do what you _want_ to do.  All that's going to matter to you at this point in your situation, no matter how you go about it, is whether or not you get correct information, right?  Trust yourself that you innately have this talent and one way or another, you'll figure it out.

>>Can any one tell me if I was doing something right

If you got the correct data, I would assume so.

>> or if it was just part of my imagination

If imagination gets you the right answer, that's not bad.

>> or just the lucky roll of the dice 50/50 chance.

Er... you were guessing one of two known choices?

Regular RV, the target potentials are close to infinite.  It could be anything on the planet.  (Or off it, for that matter.)  Providing a good deal of accurate data, let alone something fairly exacting on occasion, is actually so improbable I'm sure the %s are astronomical.

It is when you limit your choices, such as in lab tests where they might choose 1 of a small number of targets as 'the answer,' that you can really begin to measure RV session accuracy in terms of "a hit" and a single percentage, and even then, you can only really measure it in comparison to demonstrated baseline chance.  And what you are measuring is not really the chance of somebody getting the information they got, but of somebody choosing the correct of 4 or 5 targets, which is related but not the same thing.

You'd need to tell me a little bit more about the conditions of your targeting choices, target addressing and the controls in your environment for me to get more insight into your process.

>>And is this feeling usually this hard to counture(?) up in the beginning?

LOL!  It's probably that hard to conjure up even in the end. ;-)  The difference is that eventually you learn to trust yourself, accept yourself, and get comfortable enough that, if there is any real change in you, it can probably be called one of psychology more than one of psi (though it may affect your psi communication or contact).

Practice under proper controls is really the only answer to this. You don't need an RV method training to learn the controls.  The three things I would recommend being sure to include are:

1) Make sure you have no way of knowing what the target is, and that nobody who communicates with you prior to or during the session has any idea what the target is either.  In other words, you must work the target "blind," and if anybody is included in your sessions, they must be "blind" to the target as well.  This general rule also means you shouldn't be able to guess what the target could be, e.g., don't do the same types of targets, or have it be something predictable. Some people choose a group of targets they know about, and then pick one at random.  This is debateable but if you're going to do that, you need to (a) have somebody else shuffle and organize them, and (b) have at least a few hundred choices.

2) Make sure that you have a specific starting and stopping point for your session.  When you finish your session, don't allow yourself (or anybody else) to add, subtract, modify or interpret your data in any way.  When you're done, you're done, and that is what you compare with the feedback.  If you knew something but didn't write  it down -- don't add it.  Add a later note that you knew it but didn't write it down.  This is part of how you train yourself to record all the impressions you get, is the disappointment one has when they were right about something and have no evidence of it. ;-)  In other words, leave your session data "pure" -- don't let it get altered to match feedback or opinion or you later changing your mind.

3) Have someone choose for you only targets that have specific feedback.  Obviously this requires at least one other person involved in the process if not more.  They can be local sites or things, or pictures, such as from magazines.  They should be of one specific thing or place.  (For instance, a picture of a large market would be difficult, because there is so much data and variety that almost anything you said could be correct.  So teach your target source to choose something rather specific.)  It is best if the place or photo is something that won't change much, in other words, that if you RV it in "current time" and then get your feedback, that the feedback for the most part will be accurate.  (So for example, you wouldn't choose a person to RV for a practice target unless you knew the environment the person was in at the time of the Viewing.)

(In my experience, "real" sites (even if represented by photo) have been easier for me to acquire than objects or ad photos that possibly have been modified before they reached the page.  This is just a personal note and not part of the protocol.)

Another personal note: it is worth keeping track of what you did and how well.  It is a mind-numbingly bureaucratic bore, but if you're really going to study this, I'd expect anybody serious to want to track this sort of thing so they can learn from it.  Lyn Buchanan's CRV Home Page has a practice target section that has some info on how he breaks down data components and accuracy ratings that is very useful for this.

This didn't occur to me until just now, but I have a small club where I gather decent RV photo targets (or sometimes small objects) appropriate for people's level of work and mail them to them, for a small fee.  I also in some cases provide a little feedback on the session if they want to send their paperwork to me.  Maybe I should open that up to the public?  (CRVrs wanting the feedback part usually send it to an instructor who mostly judges structure, but obviously that doesn't work for somebody doing their own thing.) Hmmmn.  I'm not sure if the public would be interested, but maybe I should put the info and order form on my public firedocs site.

>>And are there any techniques that will ease the process especially concentration?

You don't have to concentrate until beads of sweat stand out on your forehead or anything.  This is actually a process that, working on intuition, often works better if you relax and allow its vague and tenuous nature to flit through your mind, as long as you learn to recognize and record it as it does.

One thing I will note: you repeated the word "visualization."  I know the term 'remote viewing' sort of infers this, but the vast majority of all RV data has little to do with vision and more to with "sensing."  Even visuals may often be mental composites of subconscious sensory information.  Taste, touch, sound, smell, concepts and feelings, both your own and those you may sense from the site, these are all included in the data people pick up.  Limiting your data by focusing on a "visual" may create difficulty for you. There's a lot more to be had.  Try a few sessions going through each of the sensories and see if you pick up more information.



> Have there been any reports of children with RV ability?  My six year old
> has been creeping out his father by telling him what he has stored in
> boxes on his top shelves in his kitchen....

Since my lessons on how to "look" started when I turned five and my first spontaneous experience was when I was three, six is no problem. My guess is your son is playing a game ... dad might not appreciate it but six year olds love to know a secret.

You might want to get some boxes and put different new small toys in them.  At his age, matchbox cars or toy soldiers are usually good motivators. Then scatter them one-at-a-time around the house.  Encourage him to tell you where he thinks it is and what it is.  That should keep him busy enough looking for the "good stuff" that he'll leave Dad's boxes alone.


P.S.  If you have a weapon in the house, it would be cheap insurance to put a safety lock on it.  Six year olds can climb anything!


Children who are open to the concept and are not closed by societal structures generally perform better initially.  There are other reasons why, evidenced by work from Dean Radin, UNLV.  Younger kids who are not enamoured with the use of word form representations (Language skills) are still in touch with their intuitive side.  It is not until our understanding of logic, language representation and other social influences shut them down do they begin to allow the skills to atrophy.


> Have there been any reports of children with RV ability?  My six year old
> has been creeping out his father by telling him what he has stored in
> boxes on his top shelves in his kitchen....

That's great!  Kids are wonderful.  The best part about kids is that they don't know that they can't do something, so they go and do it.

Jose Silva did a lot of work with his children, to get them to be successful in life, in all forms of psychic abilities.  It started out as simple concentration and memory games, and eventually grew into Silva Mind Control and the Silva Method, which includes their own version of Remote Viewing. Various Military RVers (Lyn and Ed are two that I've seen make these statements) prefer teaching children because they are more open to learning (PJ, correct me if I'm wrong, but I know I saw something about teaching children on Lyn's page).  According to Silva, anyone can do this.

I think it's wonderful that your child is developing this ability. Unfortuneately, in most cases, this sort of activity is not encouraged, and children forget that they can do this.  I hope you can encourage your child in this, but at the same time, make sure they know that not everyone knows that they can do this, and to not freak anyone out with it.  I plan to encourage my son to learn this, but he's a little young still.

Oh, one more thing.  I just saw something in Angela Thompson's newsletter about a researcher who, I believe, works for Sony, who is teaching children, and having amazing success.  And they are viewing Japanese numbers and Characters (something the Military folks are always saying they can't do.)

Hope that helps!

Mike CT

The Chinese, Russians, and a number of others have studied PSI (remote viewing) ability in children. They are about as accurate as adults, but maybe tend towards being a little bit more inventive. Which can be good in some cases and bad in others. The rules or protocols all hold the same for them, as for adults. Children have been known to cheat in order to satisfy adults desires to see them be successful, or to be viewed by adults as different and important.

I would bet the percentage of children who display talent is about the same as the adult percentage.



[Archive Note: Joseph McMoneagle, former U.S. Intell RV]

Remote view, PSI, Tantric yoga, whatever - these practices are standard procedures for "something" (you name it), and are part of the planetary tradition of "you name it".  God willing you will come to your own personalized understanding of (all and everything).  Remote viewing is very important in doing the work.  The work is greater than remote viewing as you are coming to comprehend.  The Work is Greater than All of Us - it is truly a Labour of Love.  See ya!


To the best of my knowledge children of about the age of 10 seem to have a better chance at RVing something than an adult does....

I know a Dr Sako in Japan obtained some VERY impressive results while using young children as subjects.... But alas I don't know any more than that:(


In my experiences, telling someone your intent DOES in fact diminish your ability to acheive that intent. At least for me it does. Sometimes the shear "want" to do something is really intended to produce a certain result - such as admiration or some type of envy. And if you profess your intent, you're actually getting a response back BEFORE your accomplishment, which most of the time serves the purpose of your intent in the first place, thus, you lessen the likelyhood of acheiving the intent since your persona no longer need the physical manifestion, as you've already gotten the emotianal response you wanted in the first place.

Confused? Example: If you want a new hot rod, not becuase you love hotrods, but more so, because you know everyone will admire the car or envy you once you own it, then telling people in advance of actually buying the hotrod usually results in the expected emotions being delivered BEFORE you buy the hotrod, and thus, you probably won't follow through on the purchase.

Also, letting people know in advance of some intention of yours allows those same people to alter or sway your outcome to some degree - which may be a bad thing, depending on what it is. It's all about "thought" and its collective ability to form reality. If you don't understand this basic concept of creation in this universe, then you won't understand what I'm telling you here.

Here a phrase I quote now and then to people - It's my own perspective, in my own words. Don't know how this exited my head, but here it is:

"Instruments of detection solidify reality, just as the arrival at fact implies an agreement of the same"

Think about it.


Hiya all,

I have alot of questions.  I'm only going to post one at a time so that the attention per question is as most as possible, and these questions will be sent to both the viewer e-mail group and posted at the A&E BBS.

My first question is somewhat thereotical, but I believe it to be very relevent.

I read a book a few years ago called the "Magic in Believing," in that book it stated that , telling someone of your intentions is not always good because it disperses your energy for the intentions.  I have a hard time believing in that perspective.  What seems to make sense to me is, when one tells someone(an unbeliever[which is most]) of thier intentions, the negative(usually subtle), invades(telepathicly) to the person relaying information of their intentions(rv and the such).

From what I read about the recent discoveries of telepathy, this does happen.  I have also read that experienced psychics and advanced viewers have a tool of creating a bubble of light to shield against bad intent(or something like that).

My question is, is there any thing that can be done(simpler than visually creating a bubble of light) to protect against harmful intent, other than not saying anything and possibly forgiving those who unintentionly send out harmful intent.

Looking forward to hearing some discussion on topic.



Hi all.

This is probably a question more for the lab people than anyone else, but if anyone has info on this it would be most appreciated.

Has there been any correlation discovered between successful Anomolous Cognition (like RVing) and brain wave state (Alpha, Theta, Delta)? I've read that the military RVers worked in Theta, but I was looking for confirmation of that, and curious if any of the viewers have ever been monitored during their sessions.



To my knowledge no correlation to any specific overall brainwave state.


[Archive Note: Joseph McMoneagle, former U.S. Intell RV]

I did the Angela Thompson course....rv practice in theta...then the Paul Smith CRV wide awake beta....with approximately the same degree of accuracy. Seems to be more to do with a shift of consciousness.


Daryl, most of you questions can be answered( at least to some extent) on PJ's firedoc's page at: under [Fire's Personal Archives] "Collected online Writing that include How-To information about RV" Hope that helps


Hello John,

Boy, your questions are not simple, as the explanations are quite complex.  I'll take a stab at it though.

Telepathic Influence

Telepathic Influence is a very distinct reality.  I don't necessarily agree with the 100th. monkey concept nor do I think that most people are adept enough or clear enough, to have any huge impact. However, small influences are also influences.   There are energy workers that are, however, very good and clear enough in their manipulation of energy to do harm and to do some real good in helping people with healing and in getting people to recognize and act upon their more honest nature.

There are three characteristics that may help you understand this effect more clearly.  1)  Emotion, even directed emotion tends to provide the intent with intensity.  2)  energy can take on many forms, some intentionally created (like thought forms), some based on the flooding of an object or a room or a building or a person with a perticular resonance.  3) energy can carry or contain a program or intention.

To protect ones self, there are some very good techniques that will help you do that.  The white light bubble visualization is rather so-so in effectiveness.  Most people simply visualize and are not familiar enough with how to run energy and collect it to make this technique very effective.  The white color is chosen as a protection as it contains many of the resonances of visible light, (sort of like a prism in reverse).  Beyond popular belief white is not a holy light resonance, however it does contain many resonant frequencies.

Another technique that is effective is to close your Chakras down to about 1% open.  This way, you tend not to take the energy being broadcast into your system.  Another is to turn sideways from the other person, at least there isn't any direct frontal accumulation into the front of your Chakras (Chakras run from front to back).  The other techniques I would provide in answer to your question are very difficult to describe and explain and these will take care of most of the minor influences that you may run into.

If you are being slammed by someone who knows what they are doing (intentional), get some qualified help to deal with it. Stay away from rock and chrystal purveyors and new age junkies.  ALthough they are sincere, most haven't got a real clue and read "about" it in a book someplace.  I would hope that those people who have so studied for the amount of time it takes to learn these kinds of energy and telepathic manipulation techniques, validate them, run a collection of sessions to understand the common characteristics and consistent effects, would have a generally greater sence of responsibility and would not spend their time on such negative influence.  However, I have found that it is more common than I would like to admit to and have spent a given amount of time helping out in mitigating such influences, after the fact.

Good luck in your search,


> My question is, is there any thing that can be done(simpler than
> visually creating a bubble of light) to protect against harmful
> intent, other than not saying anything and possibly forgiving those
> who unintentionly send out harmful intent.

I heard on a radio interview with 3 professional remote viewers: Joe McMoneagle, Paul Smith, and Lynn Buchannan that the Bubble of Light protection method was a bad idea. It acted like a beacon attracting negative influences instead of repelling them. Using the Bubble of Light method as protection provded an easy location method by a negative influencer to find them. They are a easy targets.

The remote viewers said that using a protective shield was a response to Remote Influencing attacks in which heart attacks and other conditions can be induced as counter measures to invasion of sensitive areas by a military remote viewer. The professional viewers were very concerned about this issue and considered it a real threat to them. They said they use other protective methods than the Bubble of Light technique. They wouldn't discuss what those measures were on the air.

Since all three of these viewers are on this list, perhaps they will discuss it here.

Charles C

blocking RV'ing is a known possibility. One way to get around a blocked target may be to RV something close to the target, like the town by Area 51, and once there, exercise a movement over to area 51 - sort of sneaking in the side door.......



The person whom said that their child had basic RV abilities... is VERY LUCKY.. I know that for the moment it may seem annoying to you and your husband..... I ask that your try to incourage your child to keep up the games..... hide sweets in boxes and get him to find out what's in there:)

Although I am now 19, when I was about 3 to 10 I had the ability to OOBE anytime and anyplace.. later I suppressed this ability and forgot about it becuase I assumed it was socially unacceptable... only now am I re-learnig the ability (which is twice as hard because orginally I suppressed it) and having a lot of flash backs of my childhood in the process:)....



You wrote:

<<I heard on a radio interview with 3 professional remote viewers: Joe McMoneagle, Paul Smith, and Lynn Buchannan that the Bubble of Light protection method was a bad idea....

I transcribed that show, and I don't remember them talking about that... or much.... Are you sure it was that show you heard that on?


<<I transcribed that show, and I don't remember them talking about that... or much.... Are you sure it was that show you heard that on?

I heard it. I wouldn't have made it up. Try Art Bell 3/25/97. This was an answer to a caller's question. I remember all three: Paul, Joe, and Lynn commenting on it. They were very concerned about getting remote influenced between the eyes and considered themselves targets.


>>I remember all three:...

Not a big deal I guess, but I can't imagine Joe at least saying something like that.  They may have said that focusing on "protection" -- and BELIEVING IN THE NEED FOR IT -- can work against you (because you would, by default, believe yourself vulnerable); but I don't think they meant to imply that they really feared they were targets... perhaps to imply that they do NOT fear that, which is why they don't feel the need to do "protection rituals."

I just read the entire transcript again, you can find it at: And didn't find the conversation you speak of.  I searched for 'light' and 'protect' and 'influence' too, in case I missed it, but didn't come up with anything you described.  But there are a number of radio shows these guys have been on, it could be anywhere....


In reference to the entire subject of "influence" and "protection".... It should be noted that this entire area quickly shades in Shamanism which is a system of knowledge that has to be taken on its own terms. There has been work done by Mind Sciences on this subject. It is also mentioned in Dean Radin's new book. In any case, there are not many expert on both remote viewing (meaning here the controlled version) and shamanism. Both require specialized training, the right contacts, and lots of free time. It seems doubtful that simply reading about a method like a "bubble of light" and trying it a few times is really going to make much difference.


> Has there been any correlation discovered between successful Anomolous
> Cognition (like RVing) and brain wave state (Alpha, Theta, Delta)?

Yes,  Espoecially low Alpha and Theta levels.  One report indicated that the level of best operations is about 7.81 hz.  However, anywahere from 4 to 9 hz seems to be used, depending on the work being performed.

Rob  Good Luck

I am quite interested in Robert Monroe.

I have the Monroe Institute Way Of Hemi-Sync demo tape. It induces a deep relaxed state very quickly.

Are you familiar with it. What brainwave frequencies does it induce?

Do you know of any hemi-sync tapes that induce and OBE. I don't want to buy the entire Gateway series.


>Hi all, Yes to the recent personal upswing. I am not a remote viewer, I am a
>Monroe Inst. grad. I am able to "see" things, and my viewing is getting
>better, quickly. This week I thought to give myself a new and tough test, so
>I chose to view the Farsight target coordinates.  .......

Ah! How interesting, Terri! Can you say more about the method you were taught at Monroe? You use "seeing" in quotes. Are we talking visual stuff, or is it something else? Parts of your description of what you "saw" sounds almost symbolic. (??)

I recently learned RV at Farsight and we do not "see". At least *I* don't see in a visual sense. My data come to me in thought/words, although they are just this side of the threshold of perception. "Distant through a thick haze" to use a visual metaphor.

Thanks for sharing.

Rick S

Hi Rob,

A good place to find more information regarding this question is Eric J. Dingwall's, four volume set(you'll have to find it in the library, with the inter-library loan program), or How to Hypnotize yourself and others, by Dr. Rachel Copelan.

Hope that helps


Hi Charles,

From my understanding OBE's are induced from the theta state and do take some practice to get proficient at.  My best advice would be to take the course at the Monroe Institute, even though it may be a little expensive at least you its a pretty much sure bet.


>... perhaps to imply that they do NOT fear that, which is why
>they don't feel the need to do "protection rituals."

This subject is a very important one for me, so please pardon my strong feelings.  Here goes...

I stupidly got involved with a questionable group of people about a year ago, over the internet.  I won't mention any names.  Then I found out the main guy claimed to be a good friend of Ingo Swann's. I didn't believe him until I saw photographs of them together.

This guy told me he was involved in some top secret RV experiments, off-planet sites included.  After a few months of talking to him on the phone and lots of emails and interaction, I began to notice that I was waking up at night with a horrendous "itch" (for lack of a better word), located kind of in the middle of my forehead.  "Itch" is not a good word but it's hard to describe this sensation.  I would find myself waking up rubbing and/or scratching this area.  I guess you could also describe it as a "pressure".  Needless to say, the scratching and rubbing did not make it go away right away.  I just figured my hair was tickling my forehead or something.  I would fall back asleep, trying not to think any more about it.

Well this kept happening more and more frequently, and on top of that I began to notice that I was waking up exhausted, like I hadn't slept at all.  I figured I was under a lot of stress, so I did all the usual stuff I do when I need to chill out - more yoga exercises, more meditation, eat better, blah blah blah.  This didn't work.

After weeks of this itching forehead and losing sleep I began to get really really grouchy and cranky.  Finally I mentioned it to this guy.  He chuckled.  I won't tell you what he told me, but I will tell you that because I stupidly trusted this guy.  I then discovered, from talking to the other women in this "group" that what was happening to me was also happening to them.

In the meantime, this guy learned that I am a very strong woman, and that I am not easily manipulated or controlled.  (Little did he know.)  He told me once that he knew I had a lot of endurance and that I was very psychic.  How the hell did he know that, I don't know.  But I started doing some RV on my own and I learned he was absolutely right.  I surprised myself with incredible success on the first three targets on Lyn's site.  I have absolutely no training. What I do comes naturally.  Maybe this guy knew this and tried to "tap" into my energy.  I can think of a few choice nouns to describe this guy... but they're all in "French" and I'm supposed to be a lady...

Anyway, I started doing some research on my own.  I learned more about RV, I began to wonder if it could be used to manipulate others from a distance.

There is a whole lot more to this story.  Some persons on this list may even know the person I am talking about.  My point is this - I know that there are people who would use their skills to harm or manipulate others.  I've seen it happen, not just to me but to others.  I've seen it happen to people who had no idea what was going on, so how can ANYONE say that " focusing on "protection" -- and BELIEVING IN THE NEED FOR IT -- can work against you (because you would, by default, believe yourself vulnerable)"???

IMO, everyone should be taught how to protect themselves from this type of invasion.  This, to me, is RAPE of the mind!!!  There are a lot of unscrupulous characters out there who regularly prey on innocent people and god forbid some of those characters have the ability to intrude upon a person's innermost being in order to manipulate and control them.

If Lyn, Joe, Ingo, Paul, or anyone who has learned the ropes and how to protect themselves, would show others how to do this, they would be doing a great service to humankind.

I believe it does no good to sit around and pretend that these things are not going on.  If this stuff didn't work, why would the government be spending tons of money on it?  Let's learn how to protect ourselves and teach others.  The universe is not always a safe place.

Go ahead and call me paranoid if you like, but I know there's more to this than what's between the eyes...

<soapbox mode off>

Ms. C

AUGUST 04 1997 TO AUGUST 21 1997

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