[VWR]-Digest: V2 #79

Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:13:00 +0100
From: MaryD <Ladyley@innerlightuk.u-net.com>
Subject: [VWR] Squid

At 13:08 20/04/98 -0400, Eric wrote:
> The information gleaned from my session included movement, cold,
>black and various other squid-y things. The problem - I missed the squid!
>There was a big hole in the sketch where squidy should have gone.
>Instead, in my sketch, I hit movement, cold, black water - yep.
>Squid - nope.

Maybe _you_ were the squid. Seriously.

I did a target some time back, I got a strong feeling that my eyes were
bulging out of their sockets. No human thought or emotions were available
to me. In the end my eyes were hurting so much I had to stop. Turned out it
was a lizard, with those same bulging out eyes.

In Friendship and Light. MaryD

Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:11:20 +0200
From: "Liam " <liam@zmatrix.com>
Subject: [VWR] Shamans & RV

Moderator's Note: This may be a duplicate post. Found it in the
approval folder and didn't know if I'd sent it or not. If so, sorry
about that.... -- PJ

At 01:27 AM 4/3/98 -0800, someone (?) wrote:
>Shamanistic "versions" of remote viewing are, in an
>obviously different context, just as legit as our own. They would
>look at our gray rooms, our coffee machines, a viewer stepping out
>for a smoke, etc. as anthropological oddities . . . and they would
>be correct.

Then Michael wrote:
>I can assure you that they DO find our way of remote viewing very
>odd. We also have to keep in mind that their system has been in use
>for 5000+ years by multiple cultures. That's a rather strong vote
>of confidence. They certainly have had many more clients and
>sessions than remote viewers in traditional Western culture. So if
>you even if you take the very traditional Western approach of adding
>up the numbers, the Shamanic systems get a solid vote.

Hello Michael and all;

Liam here. Lord knows the last thing I want to do is get the drug
thread going again,but...... there has been so much dis-information
flying around I feel compelled to say something. first of all; it is
true that the Native American Church (NAC) has one ceremony in which
Peyote is used. This Ceremony should always be presided over by a
Medicine Man /Woman. People attending this Ceremony (which lasts all
night) do have visions. The amount of Peyote taken (which is
optional for each person) does not effect the strength or the number
of the visions. The visions do not come from the Peyote but from the
Spirits who are called by the Ceremony. Peyote, without the
Ceremony, normally results in hallucinations not visions.

It has been my experience that Traditional Native Americans do not
find our way of ERV/CRV strange at all. In fact they readily except
it, and many have been doing something similar, but just never really
thought about it. It is the western culture which has a hard time
accepting our way of doing RV.

There seems to be a general misperception that because there is a
thing called a Peyote Ceremony, that all shamanistic versions of
remote viewing require drugs. This is quite simply; faulty logic.
Most shamanistic versions of RV forbid the use of drugs. Drugs, to
include alcohol, are forbidden in a Native American or Celtic Sweat
Lodges. The use of drugs would be an insult to the Spirits and would
disturb the energy of the Sweat Lodge. Drugs are forbidden on Vision
Quests. Medicine Men or Women conducting spiritual ceremonies are
expected to be drug and alcohol free. I have heard it said that it
is difficult to be a Medicine Man when you have The Pipe in one hand
and the bottle in the other.

The two identifying characteristics of the shamanistic approach,
IMHO, are the use of a ceremony or ritual, and the spiritual aspect
of the experience. The spiritual aspect can be good or bad;
witches, skinwalkers, etc also use the shamanistic approach to RV.
The shamanistic approach also often requires the achieving of a
trance or trance-like state.

I have the deepest respect , awe, and a lot of envy, for those who
have the ability to use shamanistic RV. They have been involved in
this magic for thousands of years. They certainly have more
knowledge in this arena then we late coming westerners. What I
object to is the equating of shamanistic RV to drug induced RV to
justify an argument for using drugs to enhance RV.

Finally; if you are looking for an easier, softer, way, the
shamanistic version is not it. There are several people in this
group who can train you to be an operational RVer in less than six
months (if you and they/us have sufficient free time to devote to the
process). To become a Medicine Person, takes years and years of
study and dedication by a person who has demonstrated talent in this

Remember; "Reality is for those people who cannot deal with drugs."

May the force be with you

Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:03:42 +0000
From: "Palyne" <palyne@zmatrix.com>
Subject: [VWR] PJ Personal Notes

Hi Viewers,

Thanks for your patience during the long VWR list dry spell. I
didn't realize it would be that long. I'm back online now -- albeit
sitting on the floor with my computer -- so it shouldn't be a problem
anymore; as per the 'normal' flow I'll probably send the messages out
3-5 times a week.

I've settled -- for a few months -- into a little town population of
889 (according to the sign on the road). The people are friendly, my
daughter's babysitter is right around the corner, and as long as you
don't need a decent store or to do anything after 5pm or on a Sunday,
it suits all needs. I'm hoping to buy a truck this weekend and then
I'll be all set!

My husband Lu will come down for a couple weeks visit here before
going back to Canada for a few months. Though we've been married 3
years (living in Seattle) and have a child, the INS says he has to go
back to live in Canada, I apply for him, and eventually they let him
back into the country. Hopefully it won't be too long a wait, they
say maybe 90 days, maybe 180. It's a good thing he and I work on the
internet since it means we can live anywhere and still do our work.

In the meanwhile, becoming a single mother of a nearly-2 year old in
a new place with a new job has been a real ... experience! :-) She's
a happy baby and we're having a real mommy-daughter bonding time. We
keep sharing dreams. That is always so weird....

Time, though, is what I have approximately none of. Between full
time work, two hours of commute a day, cleaning and cooking and the
toddler, I barely have time to turn ON my computer. I've been
offline so much, for so long now, that I'm actually getting used to
doing without it. (I think they call this "Getting a life," right?)
I sure miss my friends online, though......

My job, which is just doing internal www and graphic design for a
govt contractor firm down here (same thing I've been doing, they just
want to pay me a great salary to do it), is almost embarrassingly
easy, slow... no pressure, no stress, nothing hard, it's kinda
driving me crazy since I'm one of those driven Aries-rising type
people whom stress and activity actually helps hold together. Other
than fighting off falling asleep at my desk daily (the room is SO
peaceful), it's gone real well, and if they'll have me, I think I'll
stay awhile. I have the fastest desktop computer available and a
humongous screen.... it's a Mac, of course... my work computer is so
awesome my PC at home seems pretty limpid now. :-)

I hope y'all are having a great Spring, that life is going well, and
for those of you die-hards who actually make TIME to practice RV, I
hope it's moving right along for ya and you're learning a lot about
yourself. For any of you who have email in my now over 1300
unanswered inbasket, I sincerely apologize, but say honestly you may
never get one... if you had something you needed response on, write
me again... if it hits me when I've time, I'll respond, otherwise, I
read everything but don't have much time to write. Nothing personal
at all, I'm just filled to the brim with offline life right now. For
all the people I should have sent a new address and phone #, bug me
about it okay, lately if I had a brain I'd be dangerous....

I'm glad everyone has joined me here, I appreciate the interest
and participation, and I encourage serious study of remote viewing
and psi. When I get some time to get back to practice, I'll be
posting the PJRV's again. Would be neat to hear that sort of thing
from others on the list, too.



Palyne Janku Gaenir
VWR List Owner

Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 20:49:15 +0100
From: MaryD <Ladyley@innerlightuk.u-net.com>
Subject: [VWR] Your favourite target?

What is your favourite target or type of target and why?

I love fountains, as I can feel the bubbliness and energy of the dancing
water as it ripples through me.

In Friendship and Light. MaryD

Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:12:11 +0200
From: Steve Preston <spreston@cuci.nl>
Subject: RE: [VWR] RV with children

Hi all,

had a strange experience with my 12 year old son.=20
He got interested in RV and started bugging me to teach him how to do =
A few days ago I decided to let him do a site after explaining him the =
method (stage 1 only).
He got the basic gestalt very correctly (almost like a sketch), went =
straight into stage 2, reported colors, smells, tastes, dimensions, =
reported some things which would be stage 4, had an AI.
I don't know whether he RV or did something else. But one thing I know =
by looking into his face, he was way out there, it scared me quite a =

The strange thing was that when he was doing his RV (or whatever) one =
corner of our dining room (there is a door there) started rattling, like =
someone is banging at the door, and above the door were rattling noises =
as well. He turned around and looked for a moment, but it did not seem =
to bother him, he continued to report data from the site.
It bothered me a lot!!!=20

He is a very intelligent and very emotional child. He knows and senses a =
lot of things. Someone told me he is an old soul which makes sense =
because he really surprises us with the insights he has about the world =
and people.

I wonder, if some one had made similar experiences and could give me =
some ideas on that.
I am also not sure whether to continue letting him do RV.

Love and Peace to all

Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:14:24 -0400
From: mceagle@zmatrix.com (Joseph W. McMoneagle)
Subject: Re: [VWR]-Digest: V2 #74

Come on guys! Your comments imply that someone can't avoid AOL in an
ERV mode of operation. If I'm supposed to be doing ERV (at least
that's what everyone has been calling it but me) then, that is just
not true. Also, are you guys implying that AOL "almost never happens"
in the CRV mode? That would be just a wee bit over the top for me.
(You must have been hitting the sauce again, Laim? Of course Gene,
being Irish has an excuse.) Such statements also imply that there is
some unique method of determining AOL in CRV which works far better,
or more times than not, which does not agree with any of the
research--post 1986.

In argument, I would say that many of your statements may be very
appropriate within a training scenario, but hardly apply within a
non-training scenario.

This is sort of like saying because someone only drives a certain
kind or make of car all one's life, all other cars suck.

Facts are; AOL is probably going to be a permanent and significant
problem with any method of remote viewing. Evidence produced within
labs suggests that no one methodology is capable of identifying and
extinguishing AOL any better than another over the long haul. There
have been significant runs of very low AOL or displays of almost no
AOL which have been done by individual remote viewers. So, there are
indications that some people might have a talent for producing less
AOL than others. But it does not appear to be method driven since it
doesn't hold up in testing across all remote viewers using the same

Also--I still don't understand what ERV is anyway?! I have never
heard an agreed upon definition for it. Who invented it? What is it
based on? And/or what does it mean?

I'll have a few sips of Cragganmore, and chase them with a bottle of
Guiness, just to show you I hold no ill towards the wee lads across the
strait; while I await your elogant response. (Sept Stewart of

Love you guys,

>(AOL= "Analytical Overlay." The process of adding, omitting or
>altering data received via psi means based upon logical assumptions,
>memories, associations, et al. -- Moderator)

>>Most certainly there are AOL's in ERV and after working extensively
>>in both CRV and ERV as a monitor... I can tell you with some
>>authority that the evilness of AOL drive happens much quicker and
>>with more frequency in ERV than in CRV... Gene...

>From: "Liam" <liam@zmatrix.com>
>Liam here. Well said Gene! AOL is a huge danger in ERV. That is
>the reason, IMHO, a monitor is more important in ERV than in CRV. In
>CRV you know that if you get a visual it is AOL. But, ERV is visual,

Joseph W. McMoneagle -- IIA, Inc., P.O. Box 100, Nellysford,
Virginia 22958. 804-361-9215 FAX: 804-361-9056

"Courage is the best Slayer." Thus Spake Zarathustra, XLVI--The
Vision and the Enigma; Friedrich Nietzsche (pub. 1917)

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